Medal Bucks

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cervus

Well-Known Member
I heard secondhand that a silver medal standard roebuck was shot on Broadlands Estate by a German stalker last week or so,ok they are in season...my point is ,as this was the stand buck for the area and was uninjured,is this good deer management or " big bucks" fever(pun intended) so near the rut? All views welcome....I know my view it is the latter:eek:
 

www.yorkshireroestalking.

Distinguished Member
I shoot any buck in a given area, have done for 20 years, shoot more medals now then ever and roe weights and numbers have improved dramatically. If he is medal class and likely 6+ years his genes are in the pool. He may also mate with a doe from poor stock and after years as a dog breeder and service manager on pig units without knowing BOTH parents its a waste of time. IMO
 
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J222ROE

Well-Known Member
I shoot any buck in a given area, have done for 20 years, shoot more medals now then ever and roe weights and numbers have improved dramatically. If he is medal class and likely 6+ years his genes are in the pool. He may also mate with a doe from poor stock and after years as a dog breeder and service manager on pig units without knowing BOTH parents its a waste of time. IMO
+1
 

R8 user

Well-Known Member
Broadlands is a large estate ( as you know as you had the stalking there for a while) so who knows where the buck was located. If it was living close to the M27 or the Romsey road then the decision to take it before it gets involved in an RTA is up to the stalker. Same as if it was ruining a new fruit plantation, old as the hills, or some other reason it needed to be shot.
People all manage ground in different ways and whoever has the lease there now would have had the reason.
Find out who has the lease and call them up to ask??
 

cervus

Well-Known Member
I take all of the points made on board...the view was expressed by a very experienced roe deer manager and as I said, a few weeks would probably have made no difference,I am assured that the animal was the stand buck,plantation damage etc is a different issue,I manage what would be termed trophy fallow and sika and I leave them to rut in peace,the venison is rank anyway,,( in addition to roe elsewhere)..if the yearlings have been taken out the stand buck should be left in peace to rut and maybe shot later, the vacuum created by removing him may result in a better buck coming in... accepted,I am afraid that a return on the money invested on the lease is realising a good trophy return and I maintain that that can blur the edges in the management of deer,offset by the venison sale,as in all threads people,s views will vary and one piece of ground and it,s deer management will as well.
 

re'M'ington

Well-Known Member
I too shoot any Buck in front of me and I fail to see how you would create a true cull plan with Roe unless they are park deer......JMHO

Martin
 

sikamalc

Administrator
Site Staff
I am sure such a prestigious estate such as Broadlands will have a management scheme in place for Roe, but then again I might be wrong.

Much depends on the quality of the ground, cover, feed and genetics within the population. However if the silver medal head was taken it does not automatically mean it was a young beast going up, it was more than likely an older beast which has already spread its genes and it which case it will make little or no difference to culling it at this time of year.

I might also pose the question as to why so many people jump on the bandwagon when a medal head is taken and straight away think it is the wrong thing to do?

Roe Deer management is about attaining a sustainable population with good solid breeding stock, hopefully producing a viable population of medal quality animals that can be harvested every year. Not all ground is able to support this, but I would have thought Broadlands would have been big enough to support such a system.

ATB
 

cwd

Well-Known Member
sounds like sour grapes to me ? its up to the estate and the stalker what sort of cull plan they have , and why should broadlands being a big estate not shoot medals ?
​regards andy
 

howy308

Well-Known Member
I shoot any buck in a given area, have done for 20 years, shoot more medals now then ever and roe weights and numbers have improved dramatically. If he is medal class and likely 6+ years his genes are in the pool. He may also mate with a doe from poor stock and after years as a dog breeder and service manager on pig units without knowing BOTH parents its a waste of time. IMO
+1 and may more do the same
 

EMcC

Well-Known Member
I would love to make a comment on this but will refrain. @EMcC, what do you have to say??!!
I have been watching this with interest but refrained from commenting so far.
In this instance, knowing what I do ref 'Park' 'Stand Buck' and size of area and it's population, I would certainly have left this particular animal.
It is a well known fact that with the right habitat, ie food, shelter and lack of disturbance, Roe are classed as 'territorial' until such times as when the young bucks are either chased out or decide they are big enough to find their own area which they can then 'colonise' and fill with young does ready for the rut.
That is a generalisation and disturbance, crop rotation and forestry will all have it's effects on the local population.
It is up to the local Deer manager to decide what action to take based on his observations.
It is this criteria that makes me wonder sometimes how a cull plan can be formulated when some stalkers have thousands of acres and live miles away from the area.
The answer to that is usually "oh I have people on the ground keeping me informed" if those people on the ground are able to give a true picture then I would suggest they are probably stalkers themselves !! or if not then the reports are on the lines of " not a very big Deer but it had bl***y gert big horns" :D
 

www.yorkshireroestalking.

Distinguished Member
I have found with very large bucks they may have a territory BUT as they are so big wander in and out of it and can be almost nomadic drifting as they travel unchallenged by other bucks. This brings the big danger of roads, other stalkers and simply finding pastures new. The biggest joke I find with roe deer management is most shoot yearling bucks on sight so his genes will be shot out the following year any how. Shoot them all when you see them (within a NUMBERS plan) and you will end up with a cross section of all ages and sizes and keep NEW blood coming in. Most stalkers have 1 farm perhaps a few 100 acres or in a syndicate where can everyone be trusted to keep to the plan. Its a joke IMO unless a full time man lives on the grounds which must e large. All the medals I am aware of (3 at the minute) are living within 50-100 acre rape fields and are nocturnal for the main. They get big because they avoid me. Poachers and roads is their enemy. much of my grounds produce 6point yearling bucks if I left promising bucks we would shoot nothing.
 
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Si

Well-Known Member
Sounds like catch 22 to me.... how do you stop the older bucks mating with their own offspring and likewise what stops young bucks mating with their Mothers?
I would have thought it best to take out older bucks before their offspring become sexually mature and take out females after a couple of seasons of mating to keep inbreeding to a minimum. But then again you'll still have siblings mating together so what's the best plan?

Answer: shoot them all :D
 

howy308

Well-Known Member
John at Yorkshire roe stalking always to me makes very good points and as his videos show there is always plenty of deer being male or female and in very good health on his land which must show he is doing something right!
 

Taff

Well-Known Member
broadlands has enough bucks on it and surrounding it, they have a lot of ground that holds roe they don,t stalk on, sour grapes. have to agree with yss on all he said, I have been sayin it for yrs.
 

mj robson

Well-Known Member
Maybe they've been trying to shoot it since the spring but only just got the chance now? What difference does it make if it was shot in may or July?
 

bogtrotter

Well-Known Member
Trying to manage Roe deer by antler size is a waste of time ,as while the general shape may stay the same the size can vary a great deal from year to year.

Quality of antlers is largely down to feeding and to a somewhat lesser degree a Bucks status, a buck that looses his territory whether to another Buck or for some other reason, will probably not grow as good a head in subsequent years.

General antler size across your Buck population , may be an indication of whether your management plan is right or not, but personally I think body weight is more reliable.

What is the point of saving a silver medal this year,when he my be just a run of the mill six pointer next year.

IMO the only way to manage Roe is by numbers , who many Bucks do you have cull a third approx.

60% yearlings
20% middle aged
20% old

Follow that and you won't go far wrong, a least you will have a far more balanced population than you will by worrying about whether you should shoot or leaves Buck on the strength of his antler size.
 
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