Mentoring

poddle

Well-Known Member
A pal asked me to mentor him with his new .243, I of course agreed.
However this was refused by the FLB as I have a land restriction on my FAC, my land is passed to 308

I am trying to pick the sense out of this,as I have attended the required Centrefire courses as set out by my local FLB, not that they even had a right insist on this, according to BASC

However this is still not enough, and although he would be able to use my rifle under my supervision (correct ?), he would not be allowed to use his own to take the same shot.


I have told him just to take his DSC1 and clear the matter once and for all, but it does show that certain FLB's are still making things up as they go along. As far as I can recall there is no statuatory requirement to attend any course whatsoever in order to obtain .243, or any other CF.

Your points would be appreciated
 

stone

Well-Known Member
hi poddle
looks like there is an easy solution to this why not get your land restrictions lifted as if this is the reason you can't act as his mentor
what are your land restrictions? if you don't mind me asking
but still good advice to recommend the level 1 course as this should help your mate for years to come
 

poddle

Well-Known Member
Basically its the same old rubbish that is on all FAC.

ie, land approved by the cheif of police, for that calibre, blah blah
That apparently makes it a restricted license for the purposes of mentoring

It never effects my shooting, as all the land I shoot is passed to 243 or above

Like PeteE says tho, why ? it's stupid
But to be a mentor in my area it's an open ticket or you can't do it. :rolleyes:
 

stone

Well-Known Member
poddle
just a little confused, as these restriction are put in place to protect their butts aswell as your own, once you hav prooved you are capable of having an open ticket then it will be given, but not sure why they will not let you be a mentor, the only thing i can think of is if they think you are not suitable as a mentor if that is the case you need to sort that out as you say you hav level1 and your ground is passed upto .308 so in my eyes you are in the right
is it because you hav not held a licence for long enough if so i can understand thier point of view,
this is not a dig in anyway ,
just i hav countersigned a fair few applications in my time and spoken to many different firearms licensing departments regarding the applicants but never had to act as a mentor or ever known of a applicant refused that i hav countersigned for the last one was in january this year
just trying to get my head around this
 

poddle

Well-Known Member
This is my point Pete, as far as I can see, its just another backdoor resriction that has come out of nowhere.

Stone, the big boss man has stated that ANY mentor must have an open ticket, that is the ONLY condition, irrespective of how many shots you fired or how long you have owned firearms, its that shallow and that cut and dry.
Maybe I should get mine opened up. It has never affected me until now
Just to add that my rimmy's were on open ticket until I did my saftey course, so as so clear the way for the 243, when it all came back guess what... they closed the ticket complety, including the rimmy's
I have ignored it all untill now but maybe its time to bite back

Just to add that my pal is returning to shooting after having 308 and 7.62 in previous years
He also trained marines at the ranges when he was in the services.
He was also a prolific homeloader.



He only wants the rifle for fox, but is being forced into a firearms saftey course or a DSC1

Nether of these are satutes in law, so why are they being imposed.?

Its about time BASC dealt with this once and for all. Still I suppose that won't happen whist they are involved with DSC1 training, cutting off their noses I suppose

**** poor show from BASC
backdoor rules being imposed, thats my opinion
 

stone

Well-Known Member
poddle said:
This is my point Pete, as far as I can see, its just another backdoor resriction that has come out of nowhere.

Stone, the big boss man has stated that ANY mentor must have an open ticket, that is the ONLY condition, irrespective of how many shots you fired or how long you have owned firearms, its that shallow and that cut and dry.
Maybe I should get mine opened up. It has never affected me until now
Just to add that my rimmy's were on open ticket until I did my saftey course, so as so clear the way for the 243, when it all came back guess what... they closed the ticket complety, including the rimmy's
I have ignored it all untill now but maybe its time to bite back

you may of caused yourself a lot of uneccassery grief here as when your ticket came back you should of pointed out the mistake on closing your ticket fo the rimmy as now you can only shoot on approved ground ,
ie if you get more land to shoot on or buy a day's stalking
if i am correct in what i say you will need a letter of invatation/permmission to pass on to the FLO so they can do a land check to make sure you keep within the conditions set on your ticket
this means they hav control of where and what you can shoot
if you intend to use your own rifles that is
as your ticket was open before it should just be a phone call to help rectify this then sending your ticket back to get the conditions changed and also get it changed for your deer calibres at the same time
ATB
stone
 

tartinjock

Distinguished Member
What are the consequenses of shooting and being caught on a "Restricted/closed ticket" on land that has not been cleared?
 

poddle

Well-Known Member
I spoke to the friend concerned and he has booked in for DSC1, but I am sure that this is the sign of things to come. CF is going to be harder to obtain in the future, certainly without some prior paper work.

The floodgates are open for the FLB's,as BASC only appear to fight individual cases rather than the problem as a whole.

I'm starting to wonder how long they have been in bed together? or am I being cynical ?
Surely this is their job, its what we pay them for. Its about time they got off their butts and got some CLEARLY SET OUT directives that apply to ALL rather than just a few.They claim to represent shooting, well I'm sorry because in this case they most certainly are not.

They constantly state that they have a powerful lobby in parliament, well how about getting it to work.

I feel we are being failed by our champions, and they are our last hope.
 

stone

Well-Known Member
300wsm said:
I have said it before and will say it again if push comes to shove the police cannot clear land.
hav you got actual proof of this?
something that i can use , not to use in a mud slinging match but of use to make my case stronger in getting my own personel range that i hav on the farm i work for zeroinig and practice cleared for my .375 HH
the ground in question is cleared upto a .300 win mag for zeroing , stalking muntjac and fox control untill 2010 when i hav to renew
kind regards
stone
 

poddle

Well-Known Member
The guidelines state that the police are supposed to consult local shooters and stalkers when doing land checks, its not something that they can do alone. I have NEVER been approached and neither has ANY of my local shooters, and I know them all, keepers included. and taught most of them how to hold a gun.

In my area we all ignore the whole thing, and just use our rifles carefully as you normally would. It sounds flippant but it's all unenforcable.

I was advised to ignore the restriction by the very people that advise the Chief of Police.
Hence why I never worried about the Illegal restrictions.
All the country side land in my area is approved to centrefire anyway, so really it makes a mockery of the whole thing.
 

tartinjock

Distinguished Member
I asked this already in this thread, but got overlooked with other things hence asking again

"What are the consequenses of shooting and being caught on a "Restricted/closed ticket" on land that has not been cleared?"

Cheers

TJ
 

poddle

Well-Known Member
I spoke at length to the BASC legal department and they say that it is un enforcable, also backed that up by saying that there has NEVER been a prosecution over it.

Take from that what you will. But tread carefully young Jedi.

We get no problem from the FLB once we have our tickets, they just like to kick up a bit of **** when we ask for CF.
But after that you never hear from them ever again, apart from on renewel
 

poddle

Well-Known Member
You are probably right there Pete, but we are left untroubled here.

Do something stupid and attract attention to yourself and you may get trouble, but to be honest the people I know (advisors) would probably get any **** like that shot down in flames PDQ

The FLB are teetering on the edge of legality and they bloody know it.
 

stone

Well-Known Member
before we get to deep in the leagal aspects of this poddle
did you ask why there were no prosecutions?
as i know of only one that went to court but BASC would not give comment on as they did not want to know but i do know it cost the fella in question nearly £35000 and 12months approx to get a resolution where the fella in question kept his ticket
as regards to what pete has said a
a costly battle it would be , as ignorance is no defence so why fall fowl, when complying can sometimes proove the easier route but stick to your guns by all means as it sometimes works just hav to know when
 

poddle

Well-Known Member
Quite simple Stone, its not a law. Therefore cannot be broken

Thats what BASC told me. It will never get to court because the CPS cannot prosecute. Its never been passed as a law by the government of the land

Its the same as being prosecuted for singing at an egg in your own kitchen. No Law against it, we are taking guidelines and interpreting them as law.

Which is exactly what the FLB's want us to think.

Have a chat to BASC they will clarify things. I am happy to listen to what they said. Incidently the chap I spoke to was an ex FLO, and was one for many years. He says they cannot enforce these land restrictions.

Like I said tho, don't be stupid and stick to the shooting ethics and safety codes, and in my area you will not be troubled. Be a bloody fool, and you most certainly will.

I certainly don't parade around the place flouting the law and broadcasting it to all and sundry, or get involved with stupid arguements with my FLB unless they are really needed.
I just do my stuff privately and well away from prying eyes, and all is sweet(just the same as all the rest do)

Use your noddle basically
 

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