Moderator question

[mitchiet123]

Hi all,

I know i am fairly new to this forum, however i have just got my FAC and am wanting to start getting into deer stalking as much as possible.
My question is this- how much sound reduction can i expect from a decent mod on a .223 rem? in real terms that is, can i fire it without earplugs, as i am not sure whether to spend the money on a pair of CENS earplugs and spend less onthe mod or just get cracking mods for all rifles.
I am partially deaf already with about 50% hearing in both ears, so want to make the best decision however i will be limited on cash after buying the rifles!

Cheers,

Mitch

 

[jcampbellsmith]

Mitch

Some comments:

Hearing damage is cumulative.
The moderator helps your shooting as well as reducing the noise.
When taking shots at deer I'm not using any ear protection. When shooting on a range I do use ear protection.

Regards

JCS

 

[mitchiet123]

ok so with a decent mod on there i will be able to take one or two shots without my ears ringing like crazy or damaging my hearing further?
i always use in ear and on ear protection when on the range as well!

Cheers,

Mitch

 

[Ranger22]

No, hearing loss will only be slowed down by using a mod alone. Better to wear some sort of hearing protection and use a mod. I talk from experience, being hard of hearing is no fun.

Al

 

[mitchiet123]

No, hearing loss will only be slowed down by using a mod alone. Better to wear some sort of hearing protection and use a mod. I talk from experience, being hard of hearing is no fun.

Al

Completely agree, I've been half deaf since I was about 13. And wearing two hearing aids when you're in secondary school is even less fun.

Advice appreciated, think I will probs just save and buy the CENS anyway, hearings more important than money I suppose!

Cheers,

Mitch

 

[gmorrice96]

Interesting discussion, as mentioned above I don't wear any hearing protection when stalking but if zeroing or firing a few shots I always do even though I always use a mod. The mod makes shooting easier through recoil reduction as well as noise reduction but can't make a shot so quiet as not damage your hearing. But for me, the thought of stalking with hearing protection doesn't grab me, I think it is too obstructive personally making it hard to hear deer moving and for me is a lot less comfortable. That being said, I have not experienced significant hearing damage so most likely have a totally different outlook on the subject.

 

[mitchiet123]

Interesting discussion, as mentioned above I don't wear any hearing protection when stalking but if zeroing or firing a few shots I always do even though I always use a mod. The mod makes shooting easier through recoil reduction as well as noise reduction but can't make a shot so quiet as not damage your hearing. But for me, the thought of stalking with hearing protection doesn't grab me, I think it is too obstructive personally making it hard to hear deer moving and for me is a lot less comfortable. That being said, I have not experienced significant hearing damage so most likely have a totally different outlook on the subject.

Yes that's why I think I should get the CENS, as they actually amplify small noises like wings flapping and deer footsteps etc but block out gunshots and the like.
Just hard seeing as they are the thick end of £600!

Cheers for the replies!
mitch

 

[gmorrice96]

That's a lot of money. Depending on your budget, perhaps you can go for the cens and then shoot without mod. If possible get both.

Can you put a price on your hearing? In your situation I would go for hearing protection as the priority. You may also be able to pick up second hand mods at a decent price, most now are stainless or alloy so no need to worry about the internals being rusty. I wouldn't buy second hand steel mod as I seen how fast mine rusted after some neglect and wouldn't trust one somebody else has used.

 

[welshwarrior]

Moderate and wear CENS I'm now clinically deaf at 34 for noise exposure it's ok the hearing aides help but the tinnitus drives you insane some days, don't do it protect your hearing it'll never get better.

 

[Erik Hamburger]

Yes that's why I think I should get the CENS, as they actually amplify small noises like wings flapping and deer footsteps etc but block out gunshots and the like.

However, when using sound amplifying hearing protectors you may hear the noise of a deer working its way through the shrub, but you will loose the ability to pinpoint the direction where the noise is coming from. Only Mrk1 ears can do that, I often find that I can hear the deer (in particular Muntjac grazing, or a Roe crashing through undergrowth) before you can see them.

 

[Highlandsjohn]

Go for the hearing protection, you will soon get used to it for direction. Depending on the cal.of your rifle(s) use the same thread for the mod.
My mate's Sako 22/250 had the 18mmx1 thd when he bought it. I threaded and crowned two of his other rifles with the same thread to save him buying more mods. Wont work for all cals. though. john

 

[Sharpie]

you will loose the ability to pinpoint the direction where the noise is coming from. Only Mrk1 ears can do that

Not necessarily, if you are already hard of hearing like me, sufficient to qualify for an NHS digital hearing aid.

I don't have CENS, but wear my Peltor SportTac in the high seat. With the amplification turned up I hear MUCH better than without, including direction. SportTac are proper stereo jobs, some cheaper ones aren't.

I've tried stalking in them, but they are clumsy and sweaty.

The NHS aid is "completely in the canal" and actually works a bit like a CENS, with a limiter to cut the loud noises.

If you already have hearing aids, ask the provider whether they are useful as hearing protection too, they may be suitable.

As an added complication, I'd question how much sound reduction a plug like a CENS actually achieves, against impulse noises. They don't say on their website. It may not be much more than a good moderator (perhaps 27db or so).

I think you need an over-the-ear muff to properly protect your ears from an un-moderated rifle. On the range I always wear the Peltors, with cheap foam plugs as well. I can still hear well, even with the plugs in too.

I cringe at the guys who only use the disposable foam plugs. Same at the clay shoot, they are utterly inadequate. I daresay properly fitted CENS are much better, but still they can't be as good as muffs.

So my recommendation would be to stalk using a good moderator from a reputable manufacturer, who publishes test data using a defined measurement technique.

A moderator also gives you a better chance of hearing the bullet strike, which can sometimes be useful to confirm a solid hit.

It will also significantly reduce recoil, so you have a better chance of keeping your sight picture after the shot.

And of course is more discreet.

If you can afford the CENS too, then wear them in addition.

 

[NorthDorset]

I find .223 oddly loud. Makes 308 sound hushed by comparison. So I don't think you have picked the best calibre if you are sensitive about noise.

At least you are shooting outdoors. Dont suggest to try it in a tunnel!

A mod will make quite some difference.

 

[welshwarrior]

However, when using sound amplifying hearing protectors you may hear the noise of a deer working its way through the shrub, but you will loose the ability to pinpoint the direction where the noise is coming from. Only Mrk1 ears can do that, I often find that I can hear the deer (in particular Muntjac grazing, or a Roe crashing through undergrowth) before you can see them.

Have you tried CENS I can tell in which direction the noise came from accurately, they work like hearing aides again good hearing aides don't rob you of directional placement.

 

[Sharpie]

Have you tried CENS I can tell in which direction the noise came from accurately, they work like hearing aides again good hearing aides don't rob you of directional placement.

Really good hearing aids actually have more than one microphone, and fancy signal processing to improve directionality. There is a lot of subtle stuff that goes on in the ear and brain that lets you e.g. detect when a noise is behind you rather than in front, and the top end aids try to reproduce this. The NHS don't dish them out unfortunately.

 

[big ears]

Hi
hearing damage occurs after exposure to about 95dB and the length if exposure before damage occurs is proportional to the loudness. The louder it is the quicker the damage occurs. The decibel scale is a logarithmic scale so the sound doubles in intensity every 3dB. The average noise emitted from the barrel of a rifle is in the range of 130dB. This causes instantaneous damage to the inner ear. A good moderator will reduce the sound level by about 25dB still leaving the sound intensity high enough to cause instant damage. Wearing ear protection will reduce sound by another 25-27dB this now brings it down to about 80-85dB. This is the maximum permitted level of industrial exposure without providing protection as long as it is not for more than 6hours in a stretch. Modern hearing aids provided on the NHS all have the facility to have a maximum loudness set and could be used like CENS and this can be set by any audiologist it may take some persuading them. This ONLY applies to those aids with full fitting moulds either in the ear models or behind ear models.

What I would say is that once your hearing goes it's gone. Plus there is tinnitus as well which can be very distressing (I should know I have it in both ears). We talk about expensive rifles and very expensive optics but won't pay for the best ears defenders! The way forward is to have CENS style ears defenders and a moderator when stalking.

BE

 

[welshwarrior]

+1
£250 on an Aimsonic £600 on CENS is a significant saving on my last hearing aides cost oh and you'll still have your hearing and no tinnitus to contend will.

 

[Sharpie]

CENS is simply a basic digital hearing aid with generic programming, rather than individual tailoring, in fancy packaging.

And sold at a decent price, by comparison.

There may be a bit more to it than that, but if you already have suitable aids they may do the job instead.

I agree, moderator and CENS is the best policy for stalking. If on a budget, moderator first.

For range and clay shooting, good muffs absolutely required. Any type of plugs alone, not good enough.

 

[mitchiet123]

Not necessarily, if you are already hard of hearing like me, sufficient to qualify for an NHS digital hearing aid.

I don't have CENS, but wear my Peltor SportTac in the high seat. With the amplification turned up I hear MUCH better than without, including direction. SportTac are proper stereo jobs, some cheaper ones aren't.

I've tried stalking in them, but they are clumsy and sweaty.

The NHS aid is "completely in the canal" and actually works a bit like a CENS, with a limiter to cut the loud noises.

If you already have hearing aids, ask the provider whether they are useful as hearing protection too, they may be suitable.

As an added complication, I'd question how much sound reduction a plug like a CENS actually achieves, against impulse noises. They don't say on their website. It may not be much more than a good moderator (perhaps 27db or so).

I think you need an over-the-ear muff to properly protect your ears from an un-moderated rifle. On the range I always wear the Peltors, with cheap foam plugs as well. I can still hear well, even with the plugs in too.

I cringe at the guys who only use the disposable foam plugs. Same at the clay shoot, they are utterly inadequate. I daresay properly fitted CENS are much better, but still they can't be as good as muffs.

So my recommendation would be to stalk using a good moderator from a reputable manufacturer, who publishes test data using a defined measurement technique.

A moderator also gives you a better chance of hearing the bullet strike, which can sometimes be useful to confirm a solid hit.

It will also significantly reduce recoil, so you have a better chance of keeping your sight picture after the shot.

And of course is more discreet.

If you can afford the CENS too, then wear them in addition.

cant tell you how much that helps mate! Luckily I have the top quality in ear hearing aids as I am only 20 (but was early teens when it all started) the NHS took me as a priority and trialled me on the best ones. I have trouble telling which direction a sound comes from without them, but am fine with them in.

CENS is simply a basic digital hearing aid with generic programming, rather than individual tailoring, in fancy packaging.

And sold at a decent price, by comparison.

There may be a bit more to it than that, but if you already have suitable aids they may do the job instead.

I agree, moderator and CENS is the best policy for stalking. If on a budget, moderator first.

For range and clay shooting, good muffs absolutely required. Any type of plugs alone, not good enough.

In that case I think I may get in touch with my audiologist to see if my hearing aids will work the same as CENS, and then chuck a pair of quality electronic muffs over the top.
After all the aids are a few grand if you don't get them on the NHS so id imagine they have better electronics in them than the CENS.

Cheers guys!!

 

[mitchiet123]

Will defo be getting a decent mod anyway due to the benefits of recoil reduction/sight picture/noise containment etc!