Moderator

[Pom]

I recently had a PES moderator fitted to my 6.6x55 and think that it's made a really good difference. Reduced noice, muzzle flip and the deer, if standing in a group, do seem less disturbed, so more chance of a second shot.

The only negative is the weight and increased length. The increased length is a problem in my enclosed highseats.

Steve Bowers at Specialist Rifle Services fitted mine - seems to have done a great job and clearly knows more about rifles than is good for a man!

 

[Steve O]

Had one fitted 5 years ago and wouldn't go back. I know some stalkers who are dead against them, but for me the pro's outweigh the cons.

 

[Dan]

Moderators

They are a fad! Been stalking for 33 years and never seen the need for one. Had plenty of multiple shots and recoil and muzzle flip isn't a problem - I don't know too many people shooting 375 in UK.

 

[Jason]

Hi Guy's

I'm looking at getting a moderator fitted and looking at a PES moderator, a ASE S5 and the ASe jet Z has anybody anyexperiance of any of these mods?

 

[toby]

hello to all this is my first post
i am still new to the sport and have only been stalking for just over 2 years. but i had a reflex t8 added to my setup in late july. i think they are absolutly marvelous!
my first outing with the new setup resulted in a nice bronze medal roe buck, the shot didnt even disturd the two does sat 20 yards from him. i have also now had success shooting multiple beasts.
the muzzle flip and muzzle flash are non existant, so shots at dusk from seats are more of an option. with a mod you can see exactly where the bullet lands, which i struggled with when i didnt have one fitted.
but the biggest bonus, for me anyway is the fact that the game keeper allows me nearer his pens and in the woods, which has opened up my stalking no end and keeping him happy means more stalking
my opinion of moderators is like most things, each to their own. my stalking situation suits me to have a mod, some people may not need one. if your shooting lots of fallow does, a moderator will come in handy
toby

 

[deertracker]

Sound MOD.

I have had 2 Reflex moderators on my .243.The 1st one lasted a 12month, the 2nd 18 months.My rifle is very much used on a daily basis and out in all weathers.Despite being sprayed inside with a light oil after each outing,the Reflex still rusted through.I now use a ASE UTRA which is a lot more better built(stainless steel) for extende life.It adds amere 4.5" to overall length of the barrel,same as the reflex.A moderator is a must for my stalking grounds,as not to wake up the neighbour hood when I am shooting.

 

[canuk]

Just realized my ignorance of differences in terms made my post look quite stupid. What you call "moderators" we call "silencers". Strictly illegal where I live, and so I know nothing.

Of course, you all figured that out already, didn't you.

 

[John B]

Rifles and moderators

I have a friend who had a moderator fitted but never took it off the rifle.

Big mistake. The moderator rusted onto the end of barrels. He's now gone for a PES, put on by a different engineer who cut back a length of barrel and started again.

It's important to remember that where the screw has been cut into the end of the barrel, it's more susceptible to corrosion. So you should regularly apply a little oil or vasceline to the screw cut, as a barrier to stop it happening.

The PES moderator is also stainless steel and the one I had fitted a while ago doesn't have a spot of rust (and it does go out in all weathers).

 

[parastalker]

I'm with deertracker, I went through 2 t8's in 18 months. They were very quite but just dont last with heavy use. I know have 1 rifle modded and one not. Recently I have been favouring the unmodded rifle, lighter, shorter and more natural to use.

I have noticed that the deer tend to react to the strike as opposed to the report of the rifle and quite often will run towards you instead of away. This has resulted in many more multiple shot opportunities.

That said, if I'm on land with no close neighbours, I now take my unmoderated 30.06 every time.

 

[malcolm]

moderators

Have just joined the group. But I have managed deer all over the UK for close on 28 years. The T8 on my 25.06 is just great, and you do tend to get better grouping. It also keeps the deer settled and I find this helps greatly with Jap Sika, especially if I have clients out with me. Although my 25.06 is stainless, you must take of the moderator from time to time and clean with a small amount of WD 40 and very lightly grease the thread to ensure you do not get any problems. I know many professional stalkers, and I have not heard of any real complaints.

 

[Watermain]

If you remove the moderator, do you find that there is any difference in POI when re-installed? I picked up a thread in the States on this subject, and it was thought that each re-installation should include re-sighting-in. A chore, expensive, and noisy - even though reducedly so.

 

[malcolm]

Sighting in with a moderator fitted takes a few rounds to re adjust the point of impact. And if you shoot with the moderator off, you will need to re sight again. However if you are buying a moderator and paying to have it fitted, I see little point in shooting without the moderator attatched to the rifle.

I bought mine from Finland where the T8 is made and saved myself £90, as they are about £190 in the UK. As a professional stalker I have seen them on 30.06, 308, 270, 243, 22.250, 25.06 and I have never heard a complaint about them yet.

Yes they add weight to the rifle and some extra length, they also make the rifle barrel heavy. I stalk with 6 other men, all of whom have T8's on their rifles. 2 years back we undertook a Red Deer cull on 45,000 acres, taking some 170 deer in a little over 4 months, all with moderated rifles. Hope you enjoy using yours if you go ahead and purchase one.

 

[rh120]

I use a dedicated mod for all my rifles a Vaime on my .223 Rem,got the barrel chopped by 5ins because of the lenth of the Vaime, a PES blued on my .308 Win and a PES stainless on my .17 Rem. I prefer the stainless PES as i think it has a better finish than the blued version. Both the PES and the Vaime can be striped down for cleaning.You should always remove your mod after fireing as the gases are very corosive and the mod will eventuly rust on to the barrel not to memtion the damage to the crown on your rifle.

 

[john.d.m]

When someone makes a moderator that doesnt spoil the look of a rifle, sound like a bean can when touched on a branch and make the rifle feel awkward, I may,and only may, think of getting one.
Agree with Para @ deer reacting to where the shot came from and not the report so much too.
Was culling with a chap once who had a moderated 308, he shot 2 Fallow, and was spotted, I got amongst a group and they couldn`t see me, I shot 4 before they moved off,with my un moderated 30-06.
Good stalking techniques are more important than a moderator (IMO).

 

[malcolm]

I agree with a good deal of what has been said about moderators. I know they can make an awful noise when you hit them with a branch, try a cover called a bush muffler, it stops the problem. They do make the rifle unbalanced, try a stick to support the rifle when taking a shot, they spoil the look of the rifle, who really cares? I have a plastic stock 25.06 Model 77 ruger, still looks good to me with a mod on.

Having carried out some fairly extensive management on Red and Sika deer over the last 10 years, I can say that a moderator helps, not with the stalking, as you know you still need to get close when stalking Sika in woods. But it keeps the deer settled and helps with the overall mangement, especially if you are managing Sika in old caledonian forest as I do.

 

[rogern]

Moderators

Agree with Malcolm, plus why would you want a humungus report rattling around the forest or hill anyway, if the deer are being regularly shot the noise will unsettle all around.

They definately reduce flip & flash, & it cant be wrong to see the strike!

I've used one for ages, I take it off now and again because I just like the noise.

If you can handle the ugly side of things they work fine, I dont give a toss what the kit looks like as long as it kills what I shoot at.

 

[malcolm]

Thanks Rogern. I also like the noise now and again with the moderator off. Although the only rifle I have moderated is my 25.06. It is the round for me, especially for culling hinds in Scotland. I also have a 270 Tikka, which I have owned for 16 years. Although I hope to change this for the new Tikka with a plastic stock. This will also be moderated.

I have had deer run towards me with or without a moderator on a rifle. But it is true that they normally do not know where the shot comes from with a moderated rifle. So if you are not stalking correctly, with or without a moderated weapon they will most certainly not run towards you if they know you are there and have seen, heard or smelt you, I have found they tend to run in the opposite direction!

 

[vagabond]

I've been interested in the various posts on this subjects. I have a Parker Hale silencer/moderator on my Krico .22LR. Using subsonic ammunition it is very effective. No louder than an air rifle. However, When using HV ammunition then the "crack" is just as loud as if there was no moderator. The MV of subsonic .22 ammo is about 1030 to1130 fps depending on manufacture. The MV of HV and Hyper V .22 ammo is 1300 to 1750 fps. hence the differenciation of the effect of the moderator/silencer.
The MV of Centre Firre cartridges is considerably higher. Ranging from about 2500 to 4200 fps depending on calibre. How is it then that a sound moderator fitted to a centre fire rifle can reduce the sound effect??

Another thought I have, stems from remarks made in other posts of the effect recoil has on older shoulders. Back along in my youth I was involved with an artillary piece well known as the 25 pdr. field gun. That had a large lump of metal on the end of the barrel known as a muzzle brake. This lump of metal had two holes each side which allowed the propellant gasses to escape sideways as the shell left the barrel. The effect was to reduce the recoil fairly considerably especially when using a full propellent charge for maximum range. I wondered if this arrangement could be adapted to hunting rifles. Chuck Hawks has a very interesting posting on his website on this matter. It seems there is no such thing as a free meal. The trade off for reduced rcoil seems to be increased sound.

Has anyone any views on these points?

 

[rogern]

Vagabond
Sound moderators, whether fitted to rimfires or full bore weapons, reduce/negate the explosion noise of the powder by way of baffle plates similar to the exhaust on an engine.

What you can not eliminate is the crack of the bullet, this is because the bullet is supersonic (except subsonic rimfire) I have to disagree with the comment that HV rimfire crack is just as loud as without the moderator, without the rimfire moderator you will not hear the 'crack' with the moderator you hear the supersonic crack, not the explosion.

Muzzle Brakes merely 'port' the effect of the blast, usually backwards, and or, sideways, which helps reduce recoil, muzzle brakes have been available on some rifles for a long time, porting can be done on most barrels and is basically holes drilled into the muzzle which redirect the gasses.

A ported rifle is a pain in the arse in company or shooting next to on the range as the majority of the blast & report is forced sideways.

 

[JAYB]

They do add weight and they do look ugly and they do upset the balance of the rifle, but you lose the muzzle flip and maintain your view of the deer plus there is next to no recoil. I tend to believe that they are more deer friendly and you lose a good deal of the boom, especially in the forest which is a good thing. You will of course never lose the supersonic crack.
I like them and at present have three rifles moderated, using the same T8 on all three, just need to have different threaded plastic inserts, that bit that fits over the barrel, for each gun. I have a neoprene cover for it, got it off e-bay can't remember the name, give it a squirt of WD40 after every use and stand it on a radiator to dry out. So far so good, it seems to be holding up.
I think they are quite a personal thing and you either like them or you loathe them.

John