Moving live park deer

bijssg

Well-Known Member
Has anyone got expertise moving park deer, I want to move 5 hinds 1 stag 30 miles into a new area but don't want them darted they will all enter food chain (at some stage). Any advise please thanking you all.
 

paul dillon

Well-Known Member
Try Mike from Jelen Deer Management on Here he will put you right and knows the Business inside out on Live capture

ATB
Paul D
 

HunterMoore

Well-Known Member
Has anyone got expertise moving park deer, I want to move 5 hinds 1 stag 30 miles into a new area but don't want them darted they will all enter food chain (at some stage). Any advise please thanking you all.
Hi

I would also suggest you give Mike a call, he will at least be able to give you some options and costs.

Tony

his details are:

Mike Allison
Managing Director - Jelen Deer Services and Animal Capture UK Ltd

01264 811155
07707 118612
 

sharkey

Well-Known Member
I dont know what the rules for transporting deer are now but in the 90's we just used to put them in a horse box.
How did you get them in the box?

I move quiet red deer often using just xylazine & azaperone to dart them. Xylazine has a 30 day withholding period down here, & azaperone only 6 hours. Hope this helps.

Sharkey
 

sharkey

Well-Known Member
Hi Sharkey,

Have you any experience of using Zoletil and Rompun on Axis deer?

Regards,

Mike
Yes mate, I have a couple of hundred of my own & been involved with several captures around the country (wid & captive catch ups). I've been lucky to have Dr Tony English as a friend, for many years & Tony ran the research on chital at Sydney Uni in the 90's & supervised several PhD candidates on deer. For "green" chital (Axis axis) 2mg/kg of each drug. I wait 45mins & reverse the xylazine with yohimbine. For hog deer (axis porcinus) 3mg/kg of straight zoletil & be patient with the recovery. Doses can be lowered in quiet deer.

Axis are the worst for suffering PCM. The cortisol levels rise rapidly & any exertion pre capture reduces their chance of survival. We have seen that they do respond very well to "conditioning" prior to capture if that can be organised. (Can you free feed them for a week or so & fire peanuts at them? I'm serious it helps) Anything that can reduce their stress prior, during capture & any handling & transport is important. The cortisol levels do come down each successive time they are handled correctly, so training/taming really works for chital if there is the ability to do this on the ground.

Chital can't carry much fat but if there is transport involved i like to give them something for the trip. If I have used the above brew then 20mg (total) diazepalm/pamlin under the skin (SC) but just above any fat layer to give a slow release. Or 80mg of azaperone IM if I haven't used zoletil (I never mix azaperone with zoletil or a diazepam in a capture). If your vet approves haloperidol even better it just takes a wee bit to kick in. I will even pole syringe "trained" chital stags with azaperone in the yards prior to loading to prevent PCM.

The animals at greatest risk of PCM are the stags. The most dominant stag is the most at risk. Less so the lower ranked boys & those in velvet. Hinds less so, & less again for young animals. I'll be finishing my new yards (2 stories, lab, accommodation for vets & biologists, & viewing platforms) this year & one of my first agenda items is to learn more about conditioning deer & antelope & get a better practical understanding of the stress hormones involved. Axis will be the stars of the research as they are the worst. Our local major open rage zoo won't even try to catch up their own chital in their facilities any more.

The best advice Tony gave me when working with chital is "know when to stop". Chital knock up very easily & once they start breathing deeply or panting any attempt to continue will kill them.

The very best of luck. IMO Axis is the pinnacle of live capture but it can be done very successfully with good stockman ship.

PS.
Naturally, Please run the suggested brews past your vets, as I'm only an accredited layperson.

Cheers
Bob
 
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Jelendeer

Well-Known Member
Bob, thank you so much for that information. There is so little information available over here, so that is excellent.

I'll let you know how we get on. Sharing info like this is so helpful for both operators and the animals' welfare. I'll pass this on to my Vet and speak soon.

Best regards & thanks again for your help,

Mike.
 

Ronin

Distinguished Member
Id recommend you speak to an expert - id contact someone like Peter Green who has moved deer for numerous large estate and the Royal Parks. He is the BDS veterinary advisor, so is well qualified to conduct this work (or advise you) Don't forget that you may also require a licence from Natural England in some instances and there are other issues around park (tagged deer) and non tagged (wild deer)


So its not altogether straightforwards…..
 

sharkey

Well-Known Member
Id recommend you speak to an expert

So its not altogether straightforwards…..
Yes, please do, because 4 decades of deer work with many species in several countries counts for zero.

Redmist, I live with chital ( & many other species of deer & antelope). I have live caught one or two deer in my day too. I don't know if you were trying to "have a laugh" but deer are more than just living targets for many folk & Mike certainly has my respect & attention in regards to his experience & the appreciation of deer for their many values. This is without doubt one of the best forums on deer hunting, practical shooting, deer management, fairdinkum advice, etc, in the world in regards to "deer" (thanks to the members & moderators, & visa versa). If a couple of blokes can't transparently discuss in plain view of the rest of the members, some realities about deer management then IMO we are denying the members a transparent view into the realities of maintaining, producing & managing the game animals. Deer don't just grow on the pages of a calendar.

Sure, the chemical capture of deer isn't very "straight forward" but I'd like to think that the "empirical evidence" of folks like myself & Mike might be of some value to other members & hopefully contribute to the collective knowledge of this community & the other interested "deer men" who participate here.

Cheers
Sharkey
 

Yoda

Account Suspended
Yes, please do, because 4 decades of deer work with many species in several countries counts for zero.
I'm afraid Sharkey in England unless you've got a bovine excrement certificate to prove you've listened to' or read someone else's view in a book, your hardly belong to the human race.

You make a lot of sense and your posts show your expertise and knowledge is very broad but a lot of people in England cannot except it without that "bit of paper".
This country, which I love, is controlled by "advisers" and "experts" who have very little expertise and certainly no common sense whatsoever.
Please keep giving your advice to us poms.
 

sharkey

Well-Known Member
I'm afraid Sharkey in England unless you've got a bovine excrement certificate to prove you've listened to' or read someone else's view in a book, your hardly belong to the human race.

You make a lot of sense and your posts show your expertise and knowledge is very broad but a lot of people in England cannot except it without that "bit of paper".
This country, which I love, is controlled by "advisers" and "experts" who have very little expertise and certainly no common sense whatsoever.
Please keep giving your advice to us poms.

Cheers Mate!

I'm sure I'd crack you lot up, with some of my anecdotes in regards to my experience with the "scientific community".

Me. "So what did you do your PhD in?
Them. "Blah blah.
Me. "So only ONE unique contribution to science?'

You get the picture?

However, you are correct about the letters & I am aware how important those wee letters are. However, if I just publish & have peer reviewed three unique contributions "to science", then there are a few Uni's willing to support that I can "Pile it higher & Deeper" (PhD) as well as the best of them & bestow one of these medals on me.

Can you imagine someone like myself, without fear of loss of tenure or support, & being completely self funded, & a hunter, fisher & farmer to boot, gaining those three little letters & starting to publish on relevant topics?

I'm no longer a very ambitious man, but I would like to tick this box in the next decade.

Cheers
Sharkey
 

CharlieT

Well-Known Member
I'm afraid Sharkey in England unless you've got a bovine excrement certificate to prove you've listened to' or read someone else's view in a book, your hardly belong to the human race.

You make a lot of sense and your posts show your expertise and knowledge is very broad but a lot of people in England cannot except it without that "bit of paper".
This country, which I love, is controlled by "advisers" and "experts" who have very little expertise and certainly no common sense whatsoever.
Please keep giving your advice to us poms.
How true you are.
Personally, as a humble stockman who just happens to be passionate about deer, I, like you, find Sharkey's info and advice both facinating and informative.

As an aside, I found one of our governments "expert advisors" sitting in one of my tractors. He noted that the handbrake did not work, he was pulling the PTO switch but then you see his learning came from a book and a lecture!

As Yoda says......Please keep giving us Poms your advice.
 

Ronin

Distinguished Member
I don't think anyone has an issue with anyones experience here or abroad (where the the laws are different to our own) and its fascinating to listen to what is used and how its done over there.

However, the OP's question was about UK deer, UK Controlled movements and UK controlled drug administration to the target species.

Hence my post.
 

martijn

Well-Known Member
Hi, I dart deer fairly regularly and as stated above a few different options exist, usually combo's of zoletil xylazine are good, or alternatively medetomidine and ket give good results. if you go down the immobilon route then you can not put them in the food chain. the rest don't have any stupid withdrawals. I would be more concerned with them waking up in a strange environment and still partially zoned out then the capture and moving bit myself, any specialist such as jelen deer or other people can help you with that (west midlands safari park for instance).

Martijn
 

sharkey

Well-Known Member
I would be more concerned with them waking up in a strange environment and still partially zoned out then the capture and moving bit myself,
Agree. This is the reason for waiting 45mins before reversing the xylazine (or metadetomidine if you prefer using that, it is expensive, but the antagonist is better) when using ketomine or tiletamine. Zoletil is ten times smoother on the animals than ketamine, as the zolipam (diazepam) helps prevent the "ketimine effect", & it also assists with any handling & transport options for the next few hours.

Mikes question to me was on chital (axis). I have had a wee bit to do with these deer, including working on the templates & "ethics committee approval" (way more critical than you blokes, trust me) for wild capture. If someone here can actually add to this discussion with some practical info & experience around the capture of this species then please do so. A question I have myself, is has anyone tried BAM on chital, & if so how did it go?

Cheers
Sharkey
 

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