Munich mall attack: Calls in Germany for tighter gun laws

deeangeo

Well-Known Member
It would seem illogical to tighten laws for legally held firearms since all reports of this tragedy indicate the use of a completely illegal firearm/s and ammunition.
It's the illegal flow that require closer scrutiny and stopping, but all right thinking people understand how difficult that can be.
All legal firearm owners understand the need to keep their weapons secure against unauthorised access and use.
 

TonyR

Well-Known Member
If someone suggested tighter controls on trucks due to the attack in France people would say don't be ridiculous ,but when an unlicensed gun is used for an attack there are calls to tighten the issue of guns to licensed gun owners, which is equally ridiculous .Items do not kill, people do and the present PC world does not allow for sufficient control of the type of people who are likely to do these acts.
Also it seems that most Governments will not be happy until there are no privately owned firearms,i wonder why ?

Tony
 

slider

Well-Known Member
The attacker didn't have a firearm permit, the serial number was filed off the gun, he was mentally unstable and if he had applied to legally hold a firearm he would have been turned down.

What part of increasing legislation would prevent this????
 

Pedro

Well-Known Member
Well at the moment, they say they are reviewing their gun laws. So we'll no doubt see what happens there. Should there be some measures that could restrict the numbers of illegal firearms, then that would be the way to go. To be honest, I don't know much about their arrangements. I understand fully automatic firearms aren't allowed, there are circumstances where you can own semi-autos but I don't know about hand guns.
 

Sinistral

Well-Known Member
It looks like the GDR will be following the same path as the UK. A handgun ban must be next up as this is the major type of smuggled weapon. Whether that will work or not that has to be a consideration, now that the gun licensing system wasn't at fault (allegedly).

From todays' Observer ....

Gun ownership in Germany is the highest in the European Union and the fourth highest in the world, with more guns legally owned per capita than in Mexico, Russia or South Africa. More than 5.4 million guns are registered as being in private hands. But it seems it would have been difficult for the Munich gunman to obtain his gun legally without a major failing of German ownership regulations.

To own a semi-automatic 9mm Glock pistol like the kind used in the Munich shootings, a citizen would have had to have been over 18, waited a year for his licence and undergone a psychological evaluation.

Killings by firearms in Germany are double that of the UK. But three school massacres carried out by former students – in Winnenden in 2009 where 16 people died, in Emsdetten in 2006 where five people were hurt and the shooter killed himself, and at a school in Erfurt in 2002 where 17 people died – were instrumental in forcing through political reforms which are widely seen as making the country’s gun controls amongst the most stringent in the world.

The controls have seen the numbers of murders using a gun drop dramatically, from about 40% in 2000 to 13% in 2011, although firearms are still the most common method of committing suicide.

Two people out of every million die in gun killings in Germany each year. The statistic is one per million in the UK – and in the US 31 out of every million deaths are a homicide involving a gun.

The German authorities restrict the acquisition, possession and carrying of firearms to those with a legitimate reason for a weapon – for example hunters or members of sports shooting clubs. Although in vast swaths of the country people still love traditional hunting and shooting, gun ownership is not a right, as it is the US. There is also a ban on fully automatic weapons and restrictions on the acquisition of other types – and especially the sale of large-calibre weapons to young people.

Compulsory – and expensive – liability insurance is required for anyone who is licensed to carry firearms, and strict rules govern the storage of guns in safes.

Reforms enacted in 2009 in response to the massacre by 17-year-old Tim Kretschmerat at his school in Winnenden saw the creation of a federal gun register and the allowing of spot checks at the homes of any registered gun owner. Now applicants wait a year to receive their licence; young adults under the age of 25 must pass a psychological test; and any licenceholder caught drink-driving or showing any kind of erratic behaviour has to go for a psychological evaluation as well.

The country has had a chequered modern history with gun legislation – after the lax regime of the 1930s, post-war German citizens were not allowed to privately own a gun at all until 1956. Then the rules were relaxed until the height of the Red Army Faction violence in the 1970s, when regulations were again revised.
 

rodp

Well-Known Member
They could always consider a more thorough check of trucks coming in from Eastern Europe, they may find that helps cut down on illegal hand guns . Or is that too logical ? :rolleyes:
 

enfieldspares

Well-Known Member
No, no, no, RodP. Nothing must be allowed to stop the Eastern European flood of illegal guns, Roma pickpickets, Bulgarian prostitutes and all the other benefits enlargement of the EU in 2004 occasioned us.
 

timbrayford

Well-Known Member
I hope that the German shooting community manages to avoid the sort of idiotic knee jerk legislation that we have had imposed on us. Currently they are still permitted semi-auto centre-fires and pistols.
 

flying felix

Well-Known Member
It looks like the GDR will be following the same path as the UK. A handgun ban must be next up as this is the major type of smuggled weapon. Whether that will work or not that has to be a consideration, now that the gun licensing system wasn't at fault (allegedly).

From todays' Observer ....

Gun ownership in Germany is the highest in the European Union and the fourth highest in the world, with more guns legally owned per capita than in Mexico, Russia or South Africa. More than 5.4 million guns are registered as being in private hands. But it seems it would have been difficult for the Munich gunman to obtain his gun legally without a major failing of German ownership regulations.

To own a semi-automatic 9mm Glock pistol like the kind used in the Munich shootings, a citizen would have had to have been over 18, waited a year for his licence and undergone a psychological evaluation.

Killings by firearms in Germany are double that of the UK. But three school massacres carried out by former students – in Winnenden in 2009 where 16 people died, in Emsdetten in 2006 where five people were hurt and the shooter killed himself, and at a school in Erfurt in 2002 where 17 people died – were instrumental in forcing through political reforms which are widely seen as making the country’s gun controls amongst the most stringent in the world.

The controls have seen the numbers of murders using a gun drop dramatically, from about 40% in 2000 to 13% in 2011, although firearms are still the most common method of committing suicide.

Two people out of every million die in gun killings in Germany each year. The statistic is one per million in the UK – and in the US 31 out of every million deaths are a homicide involving a gun.

The German authorities restrict the acquisition, possession and carrying of firearms to those with a legitimate reason for a weapon – for example hunters or members of sports shooting clubs. Although in vast swaths of the country people still love traditional hunting and shooting, gun ownership is not a right, as it is the US. There is also a ban on fully automatic weapons and restrictions on the acquisition of other types – and especially the sale of large-calibre weapons to young people.

Compulsory – and expensive – liability insurance is required for anyone who is licensed to carry firearms, and strict rules govern the storage of guns in safes.

Reforms enacted in 2009 in response to the massacre by 17-year-old Tim Kretschmerat at his school in Winnenden saw the creation of a federal gun register and the allowing of spot checks at the homes of any registered gun owner. Now applicants wait a year to receive their licence; young adults under the age of 25 must pass a psychological test; and any licenceholder caught drink-driving or showing any kind of erratic behaviour has to go for a psychological evaluation as well.

The country has had a chequered modern history with gun legislation – after the lax regime of the 1930s, post-war German citizens were not allowed to privately own a gun at all until 1956. Then the rules were relaxed until the height of the Red Army Faction violence in the 1970s, when regulations were again revised.
So no mention that the ban on private citizens owning firearms other than party members or "true Germans" was implimented by the National Socialist Party before WWII.
 
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Southern

Well-Known Member
Germans still owned weapons all during the period 1918 to 1945. The Treaty of Versailles severely curtailed private production and distribution of the 8x57JS, which is why the 8x60 and 8x60S and 7x64 became so popular. It was a public show of peaceful force by the German shooting clubs which cowed the occupying French into their barracks and backed off their seizure of private property. A friend of mine, who was a boy in Berlin during the war, joined his grandfather with his .22 LR Mauser, and his grandfather with his sporting Mauser in 7x57, to fight a slowing retreat against invading Russians in 1945.

Gun control is only about crime to the gullible masses. To politicians, gun control is about making it impossible for the population to do anything but cast meaningless votes, if they even bother to hold elections.

After every terrorist attack, gun control is a quick diversion from government policies which failed to protect:
* Failure to seal the borders and only allow good people in.
* Failure to keep track of bad actors who got into the country.
* Cowardly refusal to discuss the cultures and ideologies which advocate violence and sedition.

The weapons in these attacks usually are smuggled in by Islamic radicals.

In this latest Munich case, the politicians want to play down the Iranian background, and talk about the killer's depression, his psychiatric problems, his anger over being bullied, guns and explosives pouring across a porous, borderless EU.

Germany recently raided 30 mosques and found weapons caches in them, and traces of explosives, indicating bomb manufacture on the premises.
Germany: Weapons Cache Near Mosque Signals ... - express.co.uk

France recently raided 3 mosques and found large weapons caches.
www.liveleak.com/view?i=c86_1449588836
 
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paul o'

Well-Known Member
BAN THIS BAN THAT ? it won't stop anyone as we all know, just the good guys pay in the end, we in the uk all-ways find that out don't WE !! When a nutter go's to la la land , if none of us had guns there still would be gun crime :eek: that's life ? free open boarders has done for that and under the radar movement of guns ? may be we should all eat with our hands and ban knifes and anything that could kill while we still can oh and cars and planes and and and !!! :doh: Sad yes sick cfuk yes , police/ doctors slack on nutter watch yes, but every one is part of that failing ,as is the gun clubs and shooters and own member of the family that should put a hand up if they feel the cogs are working lose! hard yes but would it have save a life if the nutter was helped /stopped YES but now some other unfortunate's law abiding folk have had to pay.
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my rant my views
 

flying felix

Well-Known Member
A portion of the internet / web that is only available to those that are generally in the groupage of cyber crims / perverts / terrorists etc.
it's areas that can only be accessed by using encryption software that also hides your IP address, mainly used by investigative reporters and journalists and others who want to protect work, sources etc, but is also used by the criminal element to host the black market. Basically you can buy anything from drugs to tanks.
 

Southern

Well-Known Member
Statists will use this "dark net" baloney to crack down further on all free speech critical of their agendas.
 

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