l have been asked to “get rid” (their words not mine) of some muntjac from a coppiced broad leaf wood, the wood is over run with bramble, l have a highseat up but need to do more, areas are very limited to site seats l have been down the mineral block rout, l can not do a drive (anyway it would impossible with the bramble) and l am not allowed to clear any areas, l have considered placing a couple of pheasant feeders but think the niebours will get a bit p….d of because they cant drive their birds out, l seem to be at a bit of a loss of how to up the cull successfully, any suggestions?
Muntjac
- Thread starter monynut
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Get help monynut!
I am in a similar situation although the land owner has an understanding of what is required.
Health and safety is a good start yours and the munties! You need clear access and to be able to shoot safely and retrieve the carcass. You need to clear some bramble, it is where the munties will hide and also disappear into should you shoot them and they manage to get away!
I'd like to know more info if possible. It seems you are on a 'sticky wicket'. Does the land owner understand that it is impossible to cull all the deer and if it could be done he would loose an important part of the woodland eco system?
I'll give you my phone number and we can chat if you like.
I am in a similar situation although the land owner has an understanding of what is required.
Health and safety is a good start yours and the munties! You need clear access and to be able to shoot safely and retrieve the carcass. You need to clear some bramble, it is where the munties will hide and also disappear into should you shoot them and they manage to get away!
I'd like to know more info if possible. It seems you are on a 'sticky wicket'. Does the land owner understand that it is impossible to cull all the deer and if it could be done he would loose an important part of the woodland eco system?
I'll give you my phone number and we can chat if you like.
The plain fact of the matter is that unless your muntjac population is geographically ring fenced in some way it is effectively impossible to take them off the ground other than in the very short term.
I used to stalk 800 acres of Buckinghamshire but with thousands of acres of muntjac inhabited ground surrounding us, some urban, some pheasant shooting and most littered with bridle paths and footpaths, all we could ever do is make a small dent as the neighbouring "reservoir" just fed deer back into the territory that we had cleared.
We found high seats of very limited use and actually got more deer by quietly walking through, being very careful about dog walkers and hikers even though our area was fairly clear of footpaths.
The one good thing about muntjac is that they are active for longer than most other species and walking through the wood, even mid-morning, can yield results. With a bramble cover you have to go very slowly as it can easily cover a muntie and you will inevitably spook more than you shoot and of course with does you need to check whether there might be a fawn nearby unless it is obviously pregnant.
I used to stalk 800 acres of Buckinghamshire but with thousands of acres of muntjac inhabited ground surrounding us, some urban, some pheasant shooting and most littered with bridle paths and footpaths, all we could ever do is make a small dent as the neighbouring "reservoir" just fed deer back into the territory that we had cleared.
We found high seats of very limited use and actually got more deer by quietly walking through, being very careful about dog walkers and hikers even though our area was fairly clear of footpaths.
The one good thing about muntjac is that they are active for longer than most other species and walking through the wood, even mid-morning, can yield results. With a bramble cover you have to go very slowly as it can easily cover a muntie and you will inevitably spook more than you shoot and of course with does you need to check whether there might be a fawn nearby unless it is obviously pregnant.
Trouble with too much bramble is that thge munties have no need to come out into the open. More high seats & more people needed - you cover the ground and have a height advantage which improves visibility.
Have been experimenting with licks & feeding points BTW - almost totally ignored. Would be interesrted to know if anyone has had any luck attracting muntjac, and with what.
Have been experimenting with licks & feeding points BTW - almost totally ignored. Would be interesrted to know if anyone has had any luck attracting muntjac, and with what.
The Mole said
I agree with what the Mole said 100%, you have to make the most of the period where the brambles are at the lowest.
I've never done very well with any attractants for Muntjac, I find more success in siting my seats over their trails and if the change their habits I move to where the most activity is.
I also agree with Paul K the chances of eradicating Muntjac in unfenced woodland with a surrounding population is nil.
Wayne
I've never done very well with any attractants for Muntjac, I find more success in siting my seats over their trails and if the change their habits I move to where the most activity is.
I also agree with Paul K the chances of eradicating Muntjac in unfenced woodland with a surrounding population is nil.
Wayne
One of the areas I manage is a wood aprox 6 hectares, over the past four years they have doing a big coppicing operation on 1 hectare blocks at a time. It is an SSI Site with the most amazing carpet of flowers in the spring. As you can imagine it is like paradise for the Muntjac, lovely thick areas to live in but fantastic amount of there favourite food too.
We were told from above to “Eradicate” the Muntjac, I couldn’t believe my eyes when I saw that, so anyway, we were given a grant for 2 new high seats and there is two lovely big open rides to put them in. Whilst I am a great one for stalking about quietly on foot, in this instance the high seat wins hands down. The munti tend to scurry quickly across the open rides and unless you are ready to go you completely miss the opportunity. You need to be basically ready to shoot so as soon as you see him or her, acquire in your sights and whistle like furry in the hope that he/she stops for a brief moment, before hoping into the cover. During this time you need to asses whether or not to shoot. Following the advice of Richard prior I tend to shoot bull Muntjac on sight, as long as it is safe etc. The females you need to take more care and really know who is about and who has young etc.
So my friend, you are not the only one, it is difficult to reduce numbers rapidly whilst maintaining ethical procedures.
We were told from above to “Eradicate” the Muntjac, I couldn’t believe my eyes when I saw that, so anyway, we were given a grant for 2 new high seats and there is two lovely big open rides to put them in. Whilst I am a great one for stalking about quietly on foot, in this instance the high seat wins hands down. The munti tend to scurry quickly across the open rides and unless you are ready to go you completely miss the opportunity. You need to be basically ready to shoot so as soon as you see him or her, acquire in your sights and whistle like furry in the hope that he/she stops for a brief moment, before hoping into the cover. During this time you need to asses whether or not to shoot. Following the advice of Richard prior I tend to shoot bull Muntjac on sight, as long as it is safe etc. The females you need to take more care and really know who is about and who has young etc.
So my friend, you are not the only one, it is difficult to reduce numbers rapidly whilst maintaining ethical procedures.
I think feeding munty to pheasant feeders is a good idea and have shot them coming to feed at them.
My mate in cambridgeshire had a small block of mixed woodland, only about 70 acre and part of his agreement with the wood owner was to keep the rides clear of dead branches and also to chainsaw branches off which were over growing the rides. He put out pheasant feeders and salt licks. After a while the munty slots were all over the place, over the now cleared rides as with the light being able to penetrate the floor, grass and flower species were able to grow and attract the deer into the open, slots were also in abundance around the feeders.
Obviously this is only good if the landowner gives you permission to do this, but i agree with whats been said, munty are always on the go so you need to be fast and take your shot a.s.a.p.
wadashot.
My mate in cambridgeshire had a small block of mixed woodland, only about 70 acre and part of his agreement with the wood owner was to keep the rides clear of dead branches and also to chainsaw branches off which were over growing the rides. He put out pheasant feeders and salt licks. After a while the munty slots were all over the place, over the now cleared rides as with the light being able to penetrate the floor, grass and flower species were able to grow and attract the deer into the open, slots were also in abundance around the feeders.
Obviously this is only good if the landowner gives you permission to do this, but i agree with whats been said, munty are always on the go so you need to be fast and take your shot a.s.a.p.
wadashot.
Some years ago I regularly stalked on a twice yearly basis a large estate in Northamptonshire. It is a large Pheasant shoot and covers some 12000 acres.
Apart from Fallow, the whole area was packed to the gunnels with Munties, and it was not unusual to see some 15 to 20 on each feed ride. There are now none left, or at least they are a very rare sight on the ground, the team of keepers has almost eradicated them due to pressure from the forestry department, and the destruction of the wild flowers.
This took about 3 years I believe, but the secret I think was the feed rides. This draws Muntjac like corks out of a wine bottle, and as soon as the Pheasants had been fed the Munties where out within minutes. Apart from the sound advice of High seats, it might pay to lay some straw down and start feeding some areas. Much the same as a deer lawn, it should pull deer in, and concentrate them to one or two areas. But it will be hard work to keep the little buggers out if the whole area is alive with them, it will be like painting the Firth of Forth Bridge, a never ending job!!
Apart from Fallow, the whole area was packed to the gunnels with Munties, and it was not unusual to see some 15 to 20 on each feed ride. There are now none left, or at least they are a very rare sight on the ground, the team of keepers has almost eradicated them due to pressure from the forestry department, and the destruction of the wild flowers.
This took about 3 years I believe, but the secret I think was the feed rides. This draws Muntjac like corks out of a wine bottle, and as soon as the Pheasants had been fed the Munties where out within minutes. Apart from the sound advice of High seats, it might pay to lay some straw down and start feeding some areas. Much the same as a deer lawn, it should pull deer in, and concentrate them to one or two areas. But it will be hard work to keep the little buggers out if the whole area is alive with them, it will be like painting the Firth of Forth Bridge, a never ending job!!
Hi monynut
I read an articule in the BDS quarterly journal some time ago about calling muntjac with a roe call, about three months ago I was stood on the edge of the wood and squealing the Buttolo call . With in 30 seconds of calling there was crashing in the undergrowth and a mature muntjac buck stood in the open fourty yards from me. I have had sucess with the call twice since, and every time the deer have all come in close and they have been bucks. The land I shoot does not have a lot of muntjac, I dont know if that is relivant.
I am curious as to why this works, if anyone can enlighten me I would be gratefull
I read an articule in the BDS quarterly journal some time ago about calling muntjac with a roe call, about three months ago I was stood on the edge of the wood and squealing the Buttolo call . With in 30 seconds of calling there was crashing in the undergrowth and a mature muntjac buck stood in the open fourty yards from me. I have had sucess with the call twice since, and every time the deer have all come in close and they have been bucks. The land I shoot does not have a lot of muntjac, I dont know if that is relivant.
I am curious as to why this works, if anyone can enlighten me I would be gratefull
sorry lads this method is very un ethical but it does work
you first find and shoot the big territorial buck or bucks this makes the young bucks less wary as they now hav a new territory to explore so you can get to shoot a few more young bucks than you expected , this intern upsets the does they either move on or show themselves more than normal as they feel unsafe and get bugged more by the new arrivals chance of more deer bieng shot this with all the shooting going on and i mean 4/5 mornings or evenings a week for atleast 2 weeks (get help if needed) after this devastating assault on the munties there will be very little movement or showing in activityfor a few months and is definately noticed by the land owner along with your persistence should keep them of your back and let you keep the numbers back to a more managable level with out hassle i know it is not wot we are about but better you do it now than some one else(this is only a short term solution the rest is up pto you)
total eradication will only happen if every one in the area shoots them on site lets hope this never happens i am all for proper management
you first find and shoot the big territorial buck or bucks this makes the young bucks less wary as they now hav a new territory to explore so you can get to shoot a few more young bucks than you expected , this intern upsets the does they either move on or show themselves more than normal as they feel unsafe and get bugged more by the new arrivals chance of more deer bieng shot this with all the shooting going on and i mean 4/5 mornings or evenings a week for atleast 2 weeks (get help if needed) after this devastating assault on the munties there will be very little movement or showing in activityfor a few months and is definately noticed by the land owner along with your persistence should keep them of your back and let you keep the numbers back to a more managable level with out hassle i know it is not wot we are about but better you do it now than some one else(this is only a short term solution the rest is up pto you)
total eradication will only happen if every one in the area shoots them on site lets hope this never happens i am all for proper management
hi grizzley davey
i feel in my own mind that to upset the balance in the deers own social structure can not be a good thing as the teritorial buck is usually the a strong well developed buck that helps to ensure good breeding with less ginetic faults plus he helps deter new bucks setting up home in the area so in a round about way helps with population mangement i know monynut has a difficult task ahead that is the reason for posting this info , but no one likes to wipe out all their stalking in one hit but like you say it is just a suggestion it could help
good luck monynut whatever you try
ps could be available if help needed
i feel in my own mind that to upset the balance in the deers own social structure can not be a good thing as the teritorial buck is usually the a strong well developed buck that helps to ensure good breeding with less ginetic faults plus he helps deter new bucks setting up home in the area so in a round about way helps with population mangement i know monynut has a difficult task ahead that is the reason for posting this info , but no one likes to wipe out all their stalking in one hit but like you say it is just a suggestion it could help
good luck monynut whatever you try
ps could be available if help needed
Just remembered an incident that happened when my mate took a pal of his out munty stalking.
This pal of his was laid down looking towards the block of woodland waiting for a munty to come out, one came out and without hesitation started to make it`s way towards him. This munty very nearly walked over the top of him without without realising. My mate was watching from a distance all along and couldn`t believe what he was seeing. After the event my mate came to the conclusion that this mate of his had the smell of aniceed on his jacket from the previous day helping my mate feed round his pheasant feeders, which by the way were the same pheasant feeders he used for his munty.
I have also used this method for roe along time ago.
Just a thought, but worth considering.
wadashot.
This pal of his was laid down looking towards the block of woodland waiting for a munty to come out, one came out and without hesitation started to make it`s way towards him. This munty very nearly walked over the top of him without without realising. My mate was watching from a distance all along and couldn`t believe what he was seeing. After the event my mate came to the conclusion that this mate of his had the smell of aniceed on his jacket from the previous day helping my mate feed round his pheasant feeders, which by the way were the same pheasant feeders he used for his munty.
I have also used this method for roe along time ago.
Just a thought, but worth considering.
wadashot.
Thanks everyone for the input.
This particular piece of woodland is a part of a larger wood that l already manage it only being separated by a glade that is also a public footpath, but it is the only piece that so far has been coppiced.
It is in the middle of two estates that l manage all the deer on but this is the bit that is causing me this problem as l have been asked to up the cull to this area.
Of the two estates they do not have any pheasant shoot but the woodland is subject to a woodland grant so the deer have to be seen to be controlled as a part of the grant being granted if not they may have to pay it back.
The bramble is so impenetrable it is as high as me and as thick as a reed bed it amazes me that the deer can get into it they just melt away into it like they was ever there, l am going to look into placing a few feeders in it towards the end of the season as l cant see any objections then, as far as calling them l have done before with success but not there l will give it a try ethical or not.
One thing l do need to do is talk to the woodsman and try to persuade him not to let the bramble get so out of control as l know they have had the grant reviewed and work to the wood is due to start again, l know his thinking behind the bramble but in dong it he has unwittingly created a deer haven with little or no chance of effective deer control.
Mr B, l will pm you shortly.
This particular piece of woodland is a part of a larger wood that l already manage it only being separated by a glade that is also a public footpath, but it is the only piece that so far has been coppiced.
It is in the middle of two estates that l manage all the deer on but this is the bit that is causing me this problem as l have been asked to up the cull to this area.
Of the two estates they do not have any pheasant shoot but the woodland is subject to a woodland grant so the deer have to be seen to be controlled as a part of the grant being granted if not they may have to pay it back.
The bramble is so impenetrable it is as high as me and as thick as a reed bed it amazes me that the deer can get into it they just melt away into it like they was ever there, l am going to look into placing a few feeders in it towards the end of the season as l cant see any objections then, as far as calling them l have done before with success but not there l will give it a try ethical or not.
One thing l do need to do is talk to the woodsman and try to persuade him not to let the bramble get so out of control as l know they have had the grant reviewed and work to the wood is due to start again, l know his thinking behind the bramble but in dong it he has unwittingly created a deer haven with little or no chance of effective deer control.
Mr B, l will pm you shortly.