muzzle flash causes

ziggy

Well-Known Member
hi guys I went to have a play with a few loads today with the swede. I ended up with a few spectators as the rifle was performing with quite a lot of muzzle flashes. it wasn't every round but the majority. I wasn't using hot loads and the only thing I can think of that would cause it would be unburned powder. some of the cases were very sooty too. could all this be from seating too far out? its 6.5x55 and I was using 95 grain vmax bullets over 48.5 grains of n160 upto 49.5 grains. I stopped there as it was grouping 5 shots under thumbnail. any ideas? I wanted to try for better groups but didn't seem much point if its not burning whats already in the case. cheers for looking
 

Milligan

Well-Known Member
hi guys I went to have a play with a few loads today with the swede. I ended up with a few spectators as the rifle was performing with quite a lot of muzzle flashes. it wasn't every round but the majority. I wasn't using hot loads and the only thing I can think of that would cause it would be unburned powder. some of the cases were very sooty too. could all this be from seating too far out? its 6.5x55 and I was using 95 grain vmax bullets over 48.5 grains of n160 upto 49.5 grains. I stopped there as it was grouping 5 shots under thumbnail. any ideas? I wanted to try for better groups but didn't seem much point if its not burning whats already in the case. cheers for looking

If you're seating far out you will get a lower starting pressure for any given load.
N160 seems slow for a 95gr bullet and 48.5gr is on the bottom end of the load at Saami spec, loading longer would explain the lack of obturation and the sooty neck.

Stoke it up in increments or move to a faster powder or heavier bullet.

Incidentally, do you have access to a chrono? I suspect that would show you some dissapointing velocities.
 

ziggy

Well-Known Member
I don't normally but I borrowed a chrono today and was just shy of 3000fps with the 49.5 I did have rounds loaded upto 52 grains but didn't see the point in trying them if it wasn't burning the amount of powder I had tried already.
 

jcampbellsmith

Well-Known Member
Ziggy
It's hard to say. Could you give us some more info? Type of rifle? Length of barrel? Same issues with factory ammo? Mod on or off? Vintage of brass? Full length resized? Primers used?
The Hornady manual does list N160 for this bullet weight and gives a max load of 49.6 gr. It's probably the powder I would have picked.
Regards
​JCS
 

I. Farticus

Well-Known Member
Agree with Milligan...

I'm on the Vihtavouri site, and they only quote N150 for an 85gr round.

Nothing for a 95gr round, but when you get to 100gr there's a choice of N140, N540, N150, N550 and N160, so worth changing powders if you can

However, 95gr is pretty light in the 6.5. The lightest I have is 120gr, but am pretty much exclusive on 140gr SST which will knock down anything in the UK... Foxes hate them!
 

ziggy

Well-Known Member
its a blaser r8, 6.5x55. using 95 grain vmax bullet on top of n160 powder in a lapua case with a cci 200 lr primer. only shot it with moderator on. brand new brass today the velocity was near as damn it make no difference 3000fps.
 

bewsher500

Well-Known Member
+1
does seem a tad slow burning for the bullet choice. Standard length barrel?
low charge level too for the weight. VV data shows 48 as the starting point for 100gr up to 52.3gr

the flames and sooty neck are not necessarily from the same issue
I have had lack of obturation from very hard brass and medium charge levels (also lapua)

I have also had flames belching from the muzzle on N160 (56gr under 130gr SP in .270).....dont see the issue myself, looks cool in the half light!



http://www.lapua.com/en/products/reloading/vihtavuori-reloading-data/relodata/5/56
 
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ziggy

Well-Known Member
might've known you would bloody show up on this Nicholas!! it certainly shoots though nick, I reckon it would scare dave into submission :p
 

ziggy

Well-Known Member
thanks guys, it doesn't actually bother me but I wondered if I would be wasting my time using the heavier charge weights if its not burning everything. suppose I should just grin and crack on. may just try them the next time I go out and see what happens to the grouping.
 

jcampbellsmith

Well-Known Member
thanks guys, it doesn't actually bother me but I wondered if I would be wasting my time using the heavier charge weights if its not burning everything. suppose I should just grin and crack on. may just try them the next time I go out and see what happens to the grouping.

By the Hornady book, you're already at the max (49.6 gr) for 95-100 gr bullets, so proceed with caution.
The Nosler manual states a max of 50.5 gr for a 100gr bullet.
The Berger manual states a max of 50.9 gr for a 100gr bullet.
The N160 is giving you very good load density, so I would stick with it. Regards JCS
 

bewsher500

Well-Known Member
N1603,0847.586228283,3952.39463104
VV says 52.3 for 100gr

always found Hornady data a bit on the conservative side
by comparison the VV data a couple of years ago was much hotter than it is now
 

finnbear270

Well-Known Member
+1
does seem a tad slow burning for the bullet choice. Standard length barrel?
low charge level too for the weight. VV data shows 48 as the starting point for 100gr up to 52.3gr

the flames and sooty neck are not necessarily from the same issue
I have had lack of obturation from very hard brass and medium charge levels (also lapua)

I have also had flames belching from the muzzle on N160 (56gr under 130gr SP in .270).....dont see the issue myself, looks cool in the half light!



http://www.lapua.com/en/products/reloading/vihtavuori-reloading-data/relodata/5/56
:D:D, doesn't it ruin your night vision?
 

JMS906

Well-Known Member
Your sooted cases indicate insufficient pressure to seal the case in the chamber. Your muzzle flashes indicate the powder you are using is too slow burning for the applicaiton. Switch to a faster burning powder and use an adequate charge. I never start at minimum quoted charges, having found they are typically inadequate. In general, I start with a charge that is slightly above the middle.

-JMS
 

finnbear270

Well-Known Member
Your sooted cases indicate insufficient pressure to seal the case in the chamber. Your muzzle flashes indicate the powder you are using is too slow burning for the applicaiton. Switch to a faster burning powder and use an adequate charge. I never start at minimum quoted charges, having found they are typically inadequate. In general, I start with a charge that is slightly above the middle. -JMS
Most powder manufacturers state charge weights for a reason, jumping straight to the middle is not for beginners, a shooter who needs advice on the thread title , should not be advised to start in the middle.
 

ronscomon

Well-Known Member
I've experienced this too. Sooty cases means there's not enough pressure, so you could try seating the bullet further in to the case neck (it's got a substantial jump already, being a small bullet in a 6.5 - I've used 100gn and they were quite good but still had a mighty leap to the lands and sometimes did what yours are doing).

You could also try a crimp on the case to tighten up the hold and so raise the initial pressure to get the case filling the chamber before the bullet goes very far (back off the loads to start with of course) which worked for me. Neck sizing only may help a bit with this too.

I use N160 and find it very good with the 120s & 129s I use mainly, but I would think it's not optimal for a 95 grainer, and would try a little quicker for such a light-for-calibre bullet.

Just a few ideas that might be of use.
 
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