new rifle running in
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Sorry to barge in but what's best to clean with ? Bore snake ?
You are going to a lot of trouble after someone at the proof house put a huge test charge through your rifle, my advice is for the first 50 rounds dont get it too hot after that enjoy your new rifle.
This has worked for me.....
http://www.border-barrels.com/articles/shoot-in.htm
Takes a while but it's been worth the effort on my rifles.......... why spend all that money for the sake of a short cut. But there are as many differences of opinion as there are riflesmiths.
Beware the bore-snake!
Non-Hoppes ones have a reputation for snapping when they're half way up the barrel at which point it could become very expensive;
They're not a substitute for proper cleaning. Although useful to dry any condensation or remove crud from a barrel.....some people remove the wire bristles;
If you don't pull them straight out of the muzzle they have a reputation for spoiling the crown with the friction from the cord and buggering your accuracy. Which also results in extra expense.
Edit... I still use bore-foam but not for the 24hours soak... The tin says 15mins but I usually leave for an hour or two then run a bristle brush through and leave for another 20minutes. Then patch it clean.... which is usually 3 - 5 patches.
's me
atb
Fizz
http://www.border-barrels.com/articles/shoot-in.htm
Takes a while but it's been worth the effort on my rifles.......... why spend all that money for the sake of a short cut. But there are as many differences of opinion as there are riflesmiths.
Beware the bore-snake!
Non-Hoppes ones have a reputation for snapping when they're half way up the barrel at which point it could become very expensive;
They're not a substitute for proper cleaning. Although useful to dry any condensation or remove crud from a barrel.....some people remove the wire bristles;
If you don't pull them straight out of the muzzle they have a reputation for spoiling the crown with the friction from the cord and buggering your accuracy. Which also results in extra expense.
Edit... I still use bore-foam but not for the 24hours soak... The tin says 15mins but I usually leave for an hour or two then run a bristle brush through and leave for another 20minutes. Then patch it clean.... which is usually 3 - 5 patches.
's me
atb
Fizz
Last edited:
I wouldn't worry about it, the damage (if any) is done at the proof house!
+1...no real point when it has already been shot/tested...I've never actually seen anything that is solid proof that shooting in a sporting off the shelf rifle makes any difference..
lotuseater
Well-Known Member
I am very sceptical of all these anal regimes. It's a steel tube, there's nothing to run-in or break-in, no moving parts. Clean it when it is dirty, it will be fine.
I look at it like this, if you're paying for a high quality barrel that's be made properly and hand lapped, there should be little you need to do with it.
I've used quite a few cheaper barrels of late and I hand lap each one, there have been no issues with cleaning let alone the need to run in.
The moment the proof house plays with your barrel it's job done, you can't undo it.
I've used quite a few cheaper barrels of late and I hand lap each one, there have been no issues with cleaning let alone the need to run in.
The moment the proof house plays with your barrel it's job done, you can't undo it.
blunderbust
Well-Known Member
+ 1 on this statement.
bewsher500
Well-Known Member
cant find the thread but someone had a brilliant idea
first shot: fox
second shot: roe
third shot: fallow
fourth shot: Red
repeat as necessary
first shot: fox
second shot: roe
third shot: fallow
fourth shot: Red
repeat as necessary
Moray Outfitting
Well-Known Member
Strange how those 'opposed' to this concept feel the need to protest again' it so vehemently! 
Its your rifle ( and investment ) so ultimately your choice. I would suggest that part of the issue is not grasping what one is trying to achieve - which applies as much to everything else as rifle barrels!
Possibly the only thing that people MAY agree upon is that rifles are quite individualistic - so even between same brands/ models there can be variation. I personally edge with the views per link to Border Barrels - but there are other barrel makers who say different - or so it seems. Some of the makers that speak in opposition, actually refer to their products - which are highly finished before arriving with the customer. Read context as well as content.
Break-in seeks to address the finish on a bore - both in terms of surface make up and ( for want of a better term ) 'edges - eg lands, crown etc. Ultimately the goal is consistency.
In relative terms a rough finish will abrade more jacket material during use and provide a better 'key' for that material and firing residue to bond/ hide in. Firing material in particular can attract moisture, react with it and create compounds that aren't very metal friendly. A super smooth - lets call it the proverbial mirror finish - offers less harbours for crud, but can result in significant increase in friction - purely from increased surface area.
A very poor barrel may have burs and such from the manufacturing process - which strip more material from bullets and can in extremis mark the bullet enough to impact consistency.
The idea behind lapping, break-in et al is to give a helping hand in the right direction. The aim being to create the conditions for best accuracy, longevity, ease of cleaning and so on - often in a mix that interacts with each other.
On a deer rifle it's a fair question to ask how relevant this is. There are very few instances where a sub MOA rifle is the be all and end all if you are potting deer size targets at deer stalking - as opposed to 'Carlos Hathcock re-enactment' ranges. But that same rifle will likely experience damp conditions and many a horror lurks beneath a shiny coating of bullet metal.
Its about choice - informed choice. Dogma contributes very little to debate or decision making - it just feels like it!
That said, I'll be dogmatic and say that more rifles are spoilt through injudicious 'care' than from using.
Done properly, break-in will cause no harm. If you have a super hot calibre with limited barrel life then every round fired significantly contributes to wearing out. For most middle of the road deer calibres the numbers involved are such that the issue isn't anything to sweat over. No hard evidence to hand, but I would hazard that the overall wear saved from a well conditioned bore outweighs rounds fired during break-in type processes.
Some rifles need no work at all, others would benefit from work - be it minor or relatively more extensive. Because we set out by defining what we want to achieve, the issue of how many shots, its pointless because of proof firing, quality rod or bore snake etc will self answer.
Number of shots?
There is no defined number. It depends on the work required to produce the finish you want with the bore you have.
I once helped a guy on the range. He had a brand new rifle and was attempting break-in - as advised by some 'pal'. After a while he was getting wound up because nothing he did would get any copper out of the bore. His groups were running at 1/2-3/4" from a very nice rifle sporting a brand new top of the line Border Barrel. Once he asked for help, we pushed a clean patch in - stopping an inch or so short of the muzzle and peered into the bore. A superb near mirror finish was obvious.
He wasnt seeing any sign of copper because the minute amount that accumulated from a shot wasnt enough to give an obvious reaction on the patches. Aside from his brief puzzlement, there was no waste - he'd sighted in and was producing some 'to be proud of' groups with all the brands of ammo he wanted to use.
To work, the process looks to put a bullet down a pristine barrel - so the jacket, combustion gas, residue etc all acts upon bare metal. Hence cleaning between shots each time. The proof round was the first shot - before you start shooting, you clean the barrel to metal. It doesnt spoil the process once you appreciate what you are doing.
So some rifles may require zero break-in shots. Unless you know for certain, you lose nothing by at least cleaning before firing and immediately after the first shot.
After that first round, clean using a quality rod in the manner well covered in various places. With a solvent wet patch and the rifle well supported, push the rod through slowly. Make sure there are no distractions and focus on the feedback you get from the rod. Usually you get a slight resistance at the throat, then a slight pause about 9" in, then ok until the last 2" of the bore.
If you get constant stiff resistance ( and assuming you are using the correct size jag and patches ) then thats the fouling gripping the bore. This indicates some more burnishing required.
Get the bore completely clean and fire again.
Repeat. Again read what the bore is saying to you. The throat and 9" point will likely still offer brief resistance. If the bore felt rough along its length, then hopefully its a bit easier this time.
Usually within 5 shots like this you will get a noticeable improvement. In some cases it will be slick the full run of the rod in others there'll be slight resistance - but improving everytime. In the latter case I opt for another few cycles rather than upping to two shots, five shots etc. Its your choice - the important bit is listen to the rod - dont start a conversation with it; that's something completely different and mildly worrying
The bore snake debate has raged elsewhere, so not going to pour petrol ( or bore solvent ) on those flames. But such a system makes feeling what is going on in the bore very difficult.
Is it a faff? Depends on you - some like the process, other loathe it. But its your choice.
From experience, the time invested at the outset is more than recouped in time saved and material costs saved over the lifetime of the rifle.
Its your rifle ( and investment ) so ultimately your choice. I would suggest that part of the issue is not grasping what one is trying to achieve - which applies as much to everything else as rifle barrels!
Possibly the only thing that people MAY agree upon is that rifles are quite individualistic - so even between same brands/ models there can be variation. I personally edge with the views per link to Border Barrels - but there are other barrel makers who say different - or so it seems. Some of the makers that speak in opposition, actually refer to their products - which are highly finished before arriving with the customer. Read context as well as content.
Break-in seeks to address the finish on a bore - both in terms of surface make up and ( for want of a better term ) 'edges - eg lands, crown etc. Ultimately the goal is consistency.
In relative terms a rough finish will abrade more jacket material during use and provide a better 'key' for that material and firing residue to bond/ hide in. Firing material in particular can attract moisture, react with it and create compounds that aren't very metal friendly. A super smooth - lets call it the proverbial mirror finish - offers less harbours for crud, but can result in significant increase in friction - purely from increased surface area.
A very poor barrel may have burs and such from the manufacturing process - which strip more material from bullets and can in extremis mark the bullet enough to impact consistency.
The idea behind lapping, break-in et al is to give a helping hand in the right direction. The aim being to create the conditions for best accuracy, longevity, ease of cleaning and so on - often in a mix that interacts with each other.
On a deer rifle it's a fair question to ask how relevant this is. There are very few instances where a sub MOA rifle is the be all and end all if you are potting deer size targets at deer stalking - as opposed to 'Carlos Hathcock re-enactment' ranges. But that same rifle will likely experience damp conditions and many a horror lurks beneath a shiny coating of bullet metal.
Its about choice - informed choice. Dogma contributes very little to debate or decision making - it just feels like it!
That said, I'll be dogmatic and say that more rifles are spoilt through injudicious 'care' than from using.
Done properly, break-in will cause no harm. If you have a super hot calibre with limited barrel life then every round fired significantly contributes to wearing out. For most middle of the road deer calibres the numbers involved are such that the issue isn't anything to sweat over. No hard evidence to hand, but I would hazard that the overall wear saved from a well conditioned bore outweighs rounds fired during break-in type processes.
Some rifles need no work at all, others would benefit from work - be it minor or relatively more extensive. Because we set out by defining what we want to achieve, the issue of how many shots, its pointless because of proof firing, quality rod or bore snake etc will self answer.
Number of shots?
There is no defined number. It depends on the work required to produce the finish you want with the bore you have.
I once helped a guy on the range. He had a brand new rifle and was attempting break-in - as advised by some 'pal'. After a while he was getting wound up because nothing he did would get any copper out of the bore. His groups were running at 1/2-3/4" from a very nice rifle sporting a brand new top of the line Border Barrel. Once he asked for help, we pushed a clean patch in - stopping an inch or so short of the muzzle and peered into the bore. A superb near mirror finish was obvious.
He wasnt seeing any sign of copper because the minute amount that accumulated from a shot wasnt enough to give an obvious reaction on the patches. Aside from his brief puzzlement, there was no waste - he'd sighted in and was producing some 'to be proud of' groups with all the brands of ammo he wanted to use.
To work, the process looks to put a bullet down a pristine barrel - so the jacket, combustion gas, residue etc all acts upon bare metal. Hence cleaning between shots each time. The proof round was the first shot - before you start shooting, you clean the barrel to metal. It doesnt spoil the process once you appreciate what you are doing.
So some rifles may require zero break-in shots. Unless you know for certain, you lose nothing by at least cleaning before firing and immediately after the first shot.
After that first round, clean using a quality rod in the manner well covered in various places. With a solvent wet patch and the rifle well supported, push the rod through slowly. Make sure there are no distractions and focus on the feedback you get from the rod. Usually you get a slight resistance at the throat, then a slight pause about 9" in, then ok until the last 2" of the bore.
If you get constant stiff resistance ( and assuming you are using the correct size jag and patches ) then thats the fouling gripping the bore. This indicates some more burnishing required.
Get the bore completely clean and fire again.
Repeat. Again read what the bore is saying to you. The throat and 9" point will likely still offer brief resistance. If the bore felt rough along its length, then hopefully its a bit easier this time.
Usually within 5 shots like this you will get a noticeable improvement. In some cases it will be slick the full run of the rod in others there'll be slight resistance - but improving everytime. In the latter case I opt for another few cycles rather than upping to two shots, five shots etc. Its your choice - the important bit is listen to the rod - dont start a conversation with it; that's something completely different and mildly worrying
The bore snake debate has raged elsewhere, so not going to pour petrol ( or bore solvent ) on those flames. But such a system makes feeling what is going on in the bore very difficult.
Is it a faff? Depends on you - some like the process, other loathe it. But its your choice.
From experience, the time invested at the outset is more than recouped in time saved and material costs saved over the lifetime of the rifle.
Offroad Gary
Well-Known Member
still got it too, and it still shoots better than most other rifles, even my accuracy international. Im also waiting for a s/h t3 .243 to arrive, and i never bothered asking how it was run in, how it was cleaned and how many rounds it had shot!
new rifle 6.5 x 47 lapua - long range fallow basher - Page 5
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When I get a new rifle or barrel I set aside 20rnds to shoot in; 1,1,1,1,3,3,5,5.
Whilst doing this I am also zeroing the scope which I would have to do anyway.
All of my rifles shoot to point of aim whether they are clean or dirty and are easy to clean when required.
Whilst doing this I am also zeroing the scope which I would have to do anyway.
All of my rifles shoot to point of aim whether they are clean or dirty and are easy to clean when required.
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