new rifle/scope

270TOMMY

Well-Known Member
#1
hi everybody hope you are all in good form. im thinking of buying a new stalking rifle in 300 wby magnum for use on red deer in scotland. i know its a big calibre but im getting into long range shots im thinking of a 26in barrel for accuracy i would be very interested to hear comments from fellow stalkers .oh and i would be fitting a zeiss rangefinder scope with a large magnification
 

270TOMMY

Well-Known Member
#3
maybe not enough dave,is it possible that you or another member could share some info on the subject,thats what im hoping for.
 

Thar

Well-Known Member
#4
What range are you looking to shoot these deer at? and what is your motivation for doing so?

Best rgds

Thar
 

270TOMMY

Well-Known Member
#5
hi thar im looking at distances of around 450 yards,my motive is in the ballistics of this calibre.ofcourse bulle
ts loads etc would be worked out tried and tested on the range before any stalking would be done.i think there will not be a problem with acccuracy at greater distances once i have become competent with it.on the other hand if it is too much of a problem then i will just have to shoot at more normal distances
 

wadashot

Account Suspended
#6
Hello 270tommy

My advise if its worth owt, forget your long range shooting and a range finder scope and a zeiss. I don`t know how much stalking that you have done but even if it`s lots, there is really no excuse for shooting deer at those ranges. Deerstalking is exactly what it says on the tin, basically getting as close as you can so as to dispatch the animal quickly and humanely as possible. If you can`t get to within 200 yards of any deer, then you need to either find out what your doing wrong or pack it in and try doing something else.

Range finder scopes, don`t get me started. Why do you want the hassle of a rangefinder when you can just have a fixed power set an inch high at 100 yards.

Zeiss! we have spoke about them on another thread and pretty much came to the same conclusion. They don`t seem to be quite as robust as for e.g S/B or Swarovski.

This advise may seem a bit up front but you did ask.

wadashot.
 

270TOMMY

Well-Known Member
#7
evening wadashot been stalking 30 years now but these long rangeshots really take me ofcourse i dont want to make long shots every time im stalking but its nice to be able to use your equipment to its outer parameters and make i hope as good a shot at 450 yards as at 150 yards to me that would help make a all round stalker.i have used zeiss scopes since i started and never had a problem my 1st scope i had 25 year it was as good as when i bought it nice to see your side of the coin though
 

wadashot

Account Suspended
#8
Hello 270tommy.

I can only comment on the newer ziess scopes, the ones built in the U.S and can only say that when i was going to get one about 3 years ago they were of very poor quality. I currently use 2 x 6x42 S/B, one on my .243 and one on my .270 both of them hungarian and have got to say that the build quality is that of German, and they both have a 30 year guarantee! I once dropped my .270 onto the forest track when night shooting deer as a contractor and apart from it being knocked of zero slightly and a mark on the top of the scope it wasn`t damaged at all, (bomb proof).

wadashot.
 

270TOMMY

Well-Known Member
#9
hi wadashot when a manufacturer gives you a guarante like that it says something about the product have you ever had a leupold scope it seems that you get a good un or a bad un what do you think
 

wadashot

Account Suspended
#10
A pal of mine once had a leupold a few year ago and couldn`t get it to group properly, he then got a 8x56 Swarovski on his blaser but after seeing the results that i was getting with my tikka 595 .243 with hungarian s/b, pes mod and also using prvi partisans he got rid of the lot and got the same setup as me, but got the T3.
 
K

Kent

Guest
#11
Sorry, but i do a lot of long range shooting - tactical competitor and f/tr etc. I also do as much stalking as i can fit in ( i can expect to put all 20 shots in a four inch group at this range but i cannot garantee that my 1st sighter will be within 4" of the centre of the v bull though) neither can world champion shots!
And honestly 300 win mag will not make you shoot any better, indeed it will probebly make you shoot worse due to the re-coil. .260 remmington, 6.5 x 284, or one of the 7mm calibres should be a better choice for flat shooting and bucking the wind than 30 cal anyway.
Please, please, please do not shoot at these distances - putting in 4" groups at 400 yds without sighters is way, way harder than 1" at 100!
besides which deer can move a heck of a great deal when the bullet is on its way to target even if you shot was released perfectly with the ideal dope!
Anyway if i had to make the shot i should range it with a sepparate range finder and use a Hendzolt ? (military Zies) Nightforce or Leupold etc scope
 
K

Kent

Guest
#12
sory 300 weatherby! Why a weatherby- 300 win mag and 300 WSM is a more proven long range 30 cal. and a lot easier to get brass for i recon
 

MarkH

Well-Known Member
#13
HI 270

Most of the roe I have to shot in Scotland are @ 200m, I use a Sauer 202 7x64 which is 5cm high @ 100m, zero @ 230. On top I have a zeiss 3x12-56 scope. The big problem is windage on the open hill. I shot a roe doe @ 233m in a 12mph full value cross wind and the bullet drift was 16cm. That's enough reason to get going with. It gets evenen harder with gusty swirling winds :eek:
So long range shooting (+250m) needs a totally solid rest, range finder, wind gauge and ballistic tables which is OK on an open range but hard to do in the field. Expect your groupings to double in size using open field shooting positions so excluding a crisp 1/2 value 10m/s breeze your MOA rifle could be grouping 9" @ 450 yds without the luxury of a sighter.
200-250 shooting should prove challenging enough and accuracy improves with the the lower recoiling calibers.

Regards

Mark
 

270TOMMY

Well-Known Member
#16
mmhhh seems like i have opened a can of worms about long range deer shots and most people seem to be against it and yet the americans /canadians seem to think nothing of it why is that? if it is so difficult maybe i should drop the idea as i now feel a bit dissulussioned with it
 

wadashot

Account Suspended
#17
Hi 270tommy

When you start talking about the yanks doing long range shots you are bound to open a bag of worms as they, (without tarring them all with the same brush) don`t seem to hold as much ethics about shooting as us. Take for example the well known Texas heart shot, in other words for those who don`t know, (shot up the arse). I, like lots of others have seen the videos when they have taken shots like this and it dosn`t look nice.
Maybe this is bound to happen when the stalker is restricted to the amount of deer he is allowed to shoot per year, i don`t know. :???:

It`s all very well shooting deer at range, BUT, you still have to go out and retrieve it, so you might as well pit your wits against it, using the wind, trees, bankings etc, to get the 250 yards closer.
wadashot.
 
K

Kent

Guest
#18
with the greatest respect to our American friends, they do have a bit of a reputation for being over-confident. On average they get far less free time than us and a very limited quota of deer per person to shoot, they fill a lot of thier time shooting little furry pests at great distances so they are indeed among the worlds greatest long range shooters. But it must be pretty hard to wound a rockchuck with a 22-250 / .243" a hit anywere on the body is likely to turn it inside out ! ver,ver different with a deer

Deer stalking is called stalking as the sport is to get in close - this is what quickens the pulse and gives us our sport. If it were about making terrific long range shots we would call it deer shooting.

target shooting is about getting as far away as posible stalking is about getting as close as posible.

Tommy your motivation for wishing to make this type of shot comes from the gun scribes and those who try to make us believe we really need a lazer rangefinder scope etc. Don't feel disalusioned and thanks for you courage to mention it before you do it
 

Beowulf

Well-Known Member
#19
Hi Tommy,
You haven't been watching those 'You tube' vids have you? Honestly mate don't bother. I usually shoot at ranges out to 500metres on the range. This didn't help me much stalking in Scotland last week.
I'm putting together a article about my experiences in Scotland stalking Sika hinds, hopefully posted this weekend. Please read it, it might help you to understand more about what can and does go wrong and the terrible guilt you will feel afterwards. These are wonderful animals and we should respect them. Long range shooting is not stalking its just shooting at flesh targets and is moronic.
 

JH83

Well-Known Member
#20
Lets not forget that in the States the terrain that they shoot over is in many cases very different to our own, massive fields without hedges and fences, and very little cover to use, and they often have little choice, although 500 yards is crazy. Some areas are very desert like as well. Hence the tendancy towards flat shooting calibres, and big scopes. A very experienced stalker once told me that Americans can shoot, Brits can stalk (generalisation I know).

If you cant get within sub 200 yards of our deer species, in typical terrain on a regular occasion something is wrong. If you want to test marksmanship then go to a range.
 

Top