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swampy

Account Suspended
hand guns

I read american forums sometimes and i see on one of the contributors pages the tag line of " gun control gives a 120 lb woman the right to fist fight with a 220lb rapist"

If it was lawful to own a pistol for self defence in this country i would in a flash.

the government have legislated only against law abiding citizens.

steve
 

legaleagle69

Well-Known Member
I totally agree, we used to have the right to carry our guns at one time here swampy :(
a little known fact that is actually our constitutional right which is known and was ignored by the government of the day and later by two face tony and his crew... :evil:

As a community we have stood bye and done little or nothing when they took away our semi auto rifles then our pistols trying to remain respectfully silent due to the nature and loss off life shocked us all...however if we had been much more vocal and stood up maybe we would not be where we are now.. but that's all moot now, who has them now bloody criminals.. :evil:
The decent police have your hands tied with the real serious crims carrying blatently flaunting the law, and the soft targets like country folk carrying a knife to cut open hay bales are targetted cautioned and get their guns taken off them this happened to a local guy couple of weeks ago.. :evil:
I think that everyone is frightened to stand up and say no more in case it affects them personally.. and who can blame people the guys behind the fuel protest have been systematically targetted ..
 

Beowulf

Well-Known Member
Its George Orwells 1984. Control of the masses through a Government sponsored media. The myth of free speech in this country and a war with Asia to keep us all believing in a victory we will never see.

Three predictions:-
£1.20 a litre for petrol before Christmas,
More laws that target the innocent,
The Government dropping completely the charade that they are working on our behalf and just going ahead making new polices without our consent.

Oops that's me off to the Eastern Front! :eek:

They will reap what they sow but at what cost?
 

swampy

Account Suspended
control of the media

Last week on the tv the americans revealled that Osama bin Laden had been making speeches.... targetting europe.

It is bollocks (in my opinion) I think he has been dead for years. but the americans and our government wheel him out like the bogey man to give us a scaring to justify thier oil wars.

Some people believe what they read in the papers. It is all spun and manipulated to achieve the political goals that the editors chosen allegiance is pushing.

We are involved in a hugely successful crime reduction campaign by treating drug users and drug testing orders. this has reduced crime by over 40%. however it is quite expensive although far less expensive than dealing with the crimes these people commit. last month there was a "leak" stating that this was an unsuccessful strategy..... this week we were told there was a review of funding.......

Not the last general election but the one before the home office gave us some new counting rules...... offences that previously might have been recorded as attempted house burglaries were recorded as criminal damage. some that might have been called attempt theft from motor vehicle were recorded as criminal damage.... i was watching the tv one night and a prty political broadcast by the labour party came on saying "house burglary down 21% and car crime down 17%" All of a sudden it became clear.

big brother watches from every street corner.
 

swampy

Account Suspended
just to clarify

just so you guys don't get the wrong end of the stick. I fully support our guys in all of the theatres they are fighting in.
 

Beowulf

Well-Known Member
Same here Swampy. I just don't like seeing broken Soldiers, Sailors Airmen and Police being ignored by the Government and newspapers, but the likes of 'Amy Whinninghouse' being praised by Gordon Brown for being a 'Mis understood genius' and getting on every front page! :eek: Fighting for the country 'bad' being a druggie 'good'.

This country sucks!

And don't get me started on the Beckhams! :evil:
 

JAYB

Administrator
Site Staff
Steve, I 'll make you a deal I wont wind you up about the Beckhams and you do not mention this shower of bankers (is that the word?) that we have as a Government. Swampy, every Government plays the numbers game, well, certainly from 1970 to my knowledge, but none quite so blatantly as this mob.

I liked the bit on the news the other day, apparently penned by a senior minister.

Yesterday upon the stair,
I saw a man who wasn't Blair,
I saw that man again today,
I wish that man would go away


and take his bloody mates with him!!!

John
 

old man

Well-Known Member
Hi Guys and Gals.
Welcome to the present.
Peace Envoy Blair, That's a good one! especially for him! One Mill a year.
Good old Gordy saying be proud and wear your uniform openly! Not bad for someone who works and lives under constant protection! Soon to get one Mill a year
Finally good old Dave Cam, actually thinks his life bears any resemblance to normality and believes we want to see him at home wiv his trouble and strife and kids. Already on one Mill a year.
I am so pleased their lives are the same as ours.
I could go on but even I have become bored, I wonder what its really like in Spain or France? By God that's Europe.
The mistake we all make is thinking the politicians actually give a sh1t, well they do sometimes but only about increasing the size of their trough and making sure they are up to their necks in It! :eek: :eek: :eek:
:lol: :lol: :lol:
It will probably get worse! :eek:
 

Phoenix

Account Suspended
Re: hand guns

swampy said:
I read american forums sometimes and i see on one of the contributors pages the tag line of " gun control gives a 120 lb woman the right to fist fight with a 220lb rapist"

If it was lawful to own a pistol for self defence in this country i would in a flash.

the government have legislated only against law abiding citizens.

steve
Hello Steve

They also have one of the highest murder rates in the world, certainly the highest in any 1st world country. There is some data around that suggests that some US citizen gets shot every 27mins. They also have the highest accidental death rate involving the mis-use of firearms.

A high proportion of police officers shot are shot with their own weapons. Whilst you might be happy to have to carry a firearm everyday whilst on and off duty, how many of your colleagues are so willing?

With every personal freedom comes a cost to society as a whole. I'm more than happy that we are denied the freedom to own revolvers and pistols. As I see them fore filling no practical purpose in a modern society.The numbers inconvenienced by their loss following Hungerford a and Dunblaine are insignificant when stacked alongside those upon who their loss made no impact what so ever.

However I would like to see those convicted of possession treated less leniently.

Laws have only ever impacted upon the law abiding, firearms laws are no different they just impact upon a smaller proportion of the population.
 

swampy

Account Suspended
the Usa

Hi Pheonix,
I agree with your sentiments to a degree. The united states maybe is not a good example of a model to use in relation to firearms licensing, or maybe is it a good example of how things should not be done. I would not agree with a comparible system to thiers but one where a handgun maybe obtained under a firearms certificate and maybe some statutory training should be given.

"The numbers inconvenienced by their loss following Hungerford a and Dunblaine are insignificant when stacked alongside those upon who their loss made no impact what so ever. "

I agree with this, but does that make it ok?

at dunblane there were allegedley some major failings in the licensing process- this should have been the target of the knee jerk politics.

On the broadcast i mentioned above the third string was "all handguns banned"

I feel the entire ban was introduced by the politicians so that this could be spun up and because the shooters are such a small minority they are easy meat for big political gain.

"With every personal freedom comes a cost to society as a whole. I'm more than happy that we are denied the freedom to own revolvers and pistols" I don't agree with this. i believe that with rights come responsibilities. Your right to own firearms is tempered by your responsibility to the community you live in not to use them illegally.

that site has some interesting thoughts on the licensing process that i would be happy to fulfil.

I think that due to the large amounts of illegally held firearms and weapons we face on the streets it is a matter of time until the police in this country are routinely armed. we have people coming into this country with different cultures where knife carriage is routine. The breakdown of society and it's glorification of gun and "gangsta" crime are the real problems. I would not like to go down this route... the **** storm that happens when someone is rightfully shot by the police is unbelievable.

All things being even no politician will ever move handguns back from s5 to section 1.

I am glad to enter into this debate on this site. the conduct of our members even with widely opposing views is always gentlemanly.

steve
 

buckup

Well-Known Member
Re: the Usa

"I am glad to enter into this debate on this site. the conduct of our members even with widely opposing views is always gentlemanly."
steve[/quote]

Well said Steve, and I think this is where the argument that more gun ownership = more deaths falls down. The members of this site are mostly gun or rifle owners. Do we see death threats being issued here, of course not. We are by and large rational people, for whom using a firearm in defence would be absolutely the last option. We would not think of using a gun to settle even the most heated argument.
Furthermore, perhaps if kids of the gun culture saw the damage to flesh caused by a bullet inpact (as we do) they would be less inclined to use guns. Unfortunately in the computer games, the shot body never crawls away in agony, they are just kinda gone! Why should our kids believe real life/death is any different?
Just my perhaps simplistic view?
Mark
 

Drew

Well-Known Member
Mark, you're so right, a wholesale desinsitisation has been afflicted upon children for so many years now that violence and human death has become a leaisure activity. Couple this with the absence of a family male role model in many cases, teachers who have their hands tied when it comes to disciplining, ditto the police, soft sentencing and we have a recipe for disaster.
 

Phoenix

Account Suspended
Re: the Usa

buckup said:
Well said Steve, and I think this is where the argument that more gun ownership = more deaths falls down. The members of this site are mostly gun or rifle owners. Do we see death threats being issued here, of course not. We are by and large rational people, for whom using a firearm in defence would be absolutely the last option. We would not think of using a gun to settle even the most heated argument.
Furthermore, perhaps if kids of the gun culture saw the damage to flesh caused by a bullet inpact (as we do) they would be less inclined to use guns. Unfortunately in the computer games, the shot body never crawls away in agony, they are just kinda gone! Why should our kids believe real life/death is any different?
Just my perhaps simplistic view?
Mark
Hello Mark

This site contains something like 120-130 active members, the core posting membership is 60-70 with a a hard core of less than 30, hardly a conclusive sample. The UK current population is 57million, the number of FAC's and SGC is less than 2 million. Open the door to unlimited firearm ownership and your into a USA scenario.
 

Phoenix

Account Suspended
Re: the Usa

swampy said:
I think that due to the large amounts of illegally held firearms and weapons we face on the streets it is a matter of time until the police in this country are routinely armed. we have people coming into this country with different cultures where knife carriage is routine. The breakdown of society and it's glorification of gun and "gangsta" crime are the real problems. I would not like to go down this route... the **** storm that happens when someone is rightfully shot by the police is unbelievable.
Steve

I can only assume ypou have not read the following report


http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=535071&in_page_id=1770
 

swampy

Account Suspended
report in the mail

Pheonix,
I just have. can i ask that if you are a regular daily mail reader you try to look at the policing stories objectively for a fortnight and ask yourself at the end if you are getting an unbiased view point from the mail?

In my opinion shooting accidents don't happen. someone cocks up, for whatever reason. someone takes a shortcut with rules or drills.


"his site contains something like 120-130 active members, the core posting membership is 60-70 with a a hard core of less than 30, hardly a conclusive sample. The UK current population is 57million, the number of FAC's and SGC is less than 2 million. Open the door to unlimited firearm ownership and your into a USA scenario."

I fully agree with the unlimited firearms ownership scenario.... but i do think that the sample this site provides is one of fire arms certificate holders. I wouldn't want to see unlimited firearms ownership by any measure.

steve
 

Phoenix

Account Suspended
Steve

No I'm not an avid reader nof the Mail or any of the other tabloids or spreadsheets for that matter. I pretty much gave up reading the mainstream press when Max Hastings gave up the editorship of the Telegraph.

Accidents do happen, but you;re correct they are usually due to human error or failure to adhere to the procedures.

20 or even 60 is hardly a conclusive random sample of 2 million FAC holders.

Plus some one is hardly going to confess to action, inclinations, or intention likely to render themselves liable to result in the removal of their FACs on a public forum. Unless of course they are completely stupid.
 

buckup

Well-Known Member
Hi Pheonix,
I hope I'm right in my assumption that you are an F.A.C. holder. Forgive me if I'm wrong. Your observation re numbers on this site are fair, BUT are we really so different to the rest? I feel our FAC is issued after proving our validity as responsible owners. I do feel that to own a hand gun should, and surely would require a far higher proof of sanity, responsibility and handling skill. However given the unlikely chance of hand guns ever being legally owned here again, let's not get too luke warm arguing about it. ;)
P.S. I never owned a hand gun even when they were legal, so I'm not singing from the position of a man deprived of his sport and collection of guns.
Mark
 

Phoenix

Account Suspended
Hello MArk

Yes I have a FAC. with 2 million FAC holders , there is a fair chance that 30 forum posters will differ from some of them. How many I'm unable to say.

Baring in mind that there are a lot of shooting disciplines out there at require the participant to be a FAC holder.

Lets be honest here the checks carried out are pretty rudimentary. No demonstration of competence, no psychometric testing, no lengthy pre qualifying period.

You'll have to explain you luke warm reference. I'm not familiar with that one sorry.

I owned a pistol many years ago, but sold it long before the ban came in. As I found it impractical for the purpose for which it was purchased and I also found banging away with it on the range rather boring. The fact that barn doors where perfectly safe as long as they were more than 5 feet away might have been a contributory factor to the boredom.
 

Beowulf

Well-Known Member
I'm sure I'm right in saying that the Swiss average at least two firearms per household? Little or no gun crime. :confused:

This thread has a familiar feel to it, something in the air that I just can't quite place. Swampy you have a PM. :D
 

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