Not long before we take back control from the folks that did all this...

stubear

Well-Known Member
#3
the french would say that wouldnt they!!
Quite!

But it was under the EU that youth unemployment skyrocketed, that we lost control of the borders on the continent, that far right political parties gained more ground than they ever have since WWII...

And it is the EU's fault that we voted to leave. If it was the land of milk and honey no one would want to leave, but Spain, the Netherlands, Romania, France.. are all making noise about leaving now.

I'm sure there are a load of others as well.

The thing is that the decision has been made now and the people have spoken, now we just need to make it work. Which it will I'm sure!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Pedro

Well-Known Member
#4
We've had the referendum. Get over it. Nobody said the EU did all those things. Oh, and here's me thinking it was the EU that made laws and regulations without representation. We might get it wrong now and again, but if we do, it'll be our mistake and up to us to put right. Viva la Grande Bretagne!!
 

african jack

Well-Known Member
#5
the French are not going to deal with us now we have left the EU but got a strop on when they thought we were pulling the plug on Hinckley point oh dear
 

ILoveBambi

Well-Known Member
#7
If only we could pull the plug and fill that bloody tunnel with water. It's been nothing but trouble since it opened God moved us away from France & Europe for a reason, obviously he could see the future.
ILB
 

jimmy milnes

Well-Known Member
#8
I've said it before and I'll say it again
If the EU is such a wonderful thing why is it that only poor countries are wanting to join ???
I'm more than willing to stand corrected if someone can tell me some rich and powerful nation that is banging on the door to join
As said above the people voted get over it and stop talking this GREAT BRITAIN down as negative comments and images with do nothing but bring misery and conflict
 

Chasey

Well-Known Member
#10
We've had the referendum. Get over it. Nobody said the EU did all those things. Oh, and here's me thinking it was the EU that made laws and regulations without representation. We might get it wrong now and again, but if we do, it'll be our mistake and up to us to put right. Viva la Grande Bretagne!!

Right now we are in the top 3 for influencing EU law. If we leave we wont be represented.

EU law has one single purpose. To enforce the objectives of the EU treaty agreement

The EU laws are focused mainly in the areas of the environment, food safety and human rights (including employment rights)

For a law to be introduced it first has to be introduced by the EU Commison, usuely in responce to a proposal from one of the 27 member states.

The proposal then goes before the commission for debate. The UK had strong representation on the EU Commission but post Brexit of course we will have none, but will still need to abide by any new rules to continue to trade with the EU

In my opinion it has often worked to our benifit by acting as a whipping post where governments have had to introduce unpopular but necessary environmental decisions but could blame it on the EU

The mear fact that EU law has to be rattified by representatives from 27 member states makes it incredeble that we ever get any passed, but the main thing is, the laws can and do circumnavigate the individual interests / greed of each member state and focus on improving our sustainabuility, safety and human rights.

Without centralised decisions of this type we will be left with laws on safety, employment, the environment, human rights made by our own government

This of course means which ever big financial interest is controlling government decision making this week in order to improve their profit margins

This also means unilateral decision makeing on issues like the environment. Whilst the government is mad keen on environmental tax manipulation (blaming the environmental issues for tax increases) it is less keen on anything that costs it tax dolla or increases overheads for its many big buisness suporters.

The EU was supposed to be beyond such influance and whilst its obviously not, it is at least much further beyond it than the governments of quite a few member states.

But hey, what did the Romans ever do for us right?
 

Alantoo

Well-Known Member
#12
I've said it before and I'll say it again
If the EU is such a wonderful thing why is it that only poor countries are wanting to join ???
I'm more than willing to stand corrected if someone can tell me some rich and powerful nation that is banging on the door to join
As said above the people voted get over it and stop talking this GREAT BRITAIN down as negative comments and images with do nothing but bring misery and conflict
The simple answer to your question is that there are not any rich and powerful nations that are eligible left...they all joined the EEC, did very well, and became even richer and more powerful thank you.

I guess the political and philosophical attitude changes with historical circumstance...maybe the rich and powerful nations of Europe were originally not motivated by "What is in it for us?" but by the "Ask not what the EEC can do for GB, but ask what can GB do for the EEC" type of attitude?

Many think we were taken into EEC because the GB big businesses wanted access to cheap labour and simpler international trading systems...but then the EU mechanism became too supportive of the rights and well being of those labourers that it defeated the initial purpose of the corporations and their politicians.

Could be either way, we know the EU bureaucracy developed a mind of its own....I guess it depends how much you feel we are manipulated by the media, corporations and politicians.

This may help answer your question...

Alan
 

jimmy milnes

Well-Known Member
#13
OK so aside from the fact that turkey's not strictly speaking in Europe yet they are OK to join "if they meet the needs "
What your saying is that there are only poor countries left to join ? So given that therefore it stands to reason that the amount of money pledged by the richer countries has to increase in order to fund the "growth" of the EU !
Well that's a great reason to stay in my opinion then
 

JTO

Well-Known Member
#14
If the EU is such a wonderful thing why is it that only poor countries are wanting to join ???
Because it's all about creating a Socialist superstate. It was tried once(USSR) and, after 70 years of misery for all but the political elite, it was found to be a failure. Now the intellectuals and academics in western Europe want to have another go.
 

Chasey

Well-Known Member
#15
Because it's all about creating a Socialist superstate. It was tried once(USSR) and, after 70 years of misery for all but the political elite, it was found to be a failure. Now the intellectuals and academics in western Europe want to have another go.

Yes and don't forget China blimy what a sad state they are in :D


But thats not what made me laugh out loud at your statement

The problem in Europe is the prominance of the far right not so much the far left.

Mind you, the general working conditions, pay and standars of living are much better in the main EU member states than they are in the UK and they are doing stuff like enforcing punative caps on massive bonous payouts to fat cats (as low as 20% max of sallery in some EU states) and makeing it harder for big buisness to avoid tax which they are trying to push EU wide,

So I can see how that would be seen as lefty politics :D

I am assuming your real name is Phillip Green :D
 

JabaliHunter

Well-Known Member
#16
anyone that think all that will go away (or would never have happened) in a UK outside the UK is delusional
How very existential!

EU law has one single purpose. To enforce the objectives of the EU treaty agreement. The EU laws are focused mainly in the areas of the environment, food safety and human rights (including employment rights)
Perhaps, but the overall context of EU law is primarily to ensure fair competition within a single market by bringing all countries up to a common standard.

The counter-argument to your concerns are that there has never been anything to stop sovereign governments from making national laws which go further than EU regulations in enforcing protections or rights (provided it doesn't create a non-tariff barrier to trade). The UK in fact has a history of 'gold plating' EU regulations, i.e. going further than required, so I think concerns that all the legislation regarding protection and rights will be 'rolled back' are over-blown.

Yes there may be cause for concern over e.g. environmental protection legislation if we no-longer have the final arbitration of the EU courts, but it will be up to voters and pressure groups to make sure that national laws are upheld and that transgressors are held to account. To be honest, this is my primary concern, but I think there would be very little public appetite for rolling back on environmental protection laws. We need to ensure that the courts have the teeth to enforce these laws rather than passing the buck to the European courts as so often in the past.

Whether there is any appetite for additional measures such as 'greening schemes' or 're-wilding' is a different matter. Many would feel that there is little justification for for such schemes if they simply mechanisms to maintain payments to farmers at tax payers' expense - there is a (perhaps justifiable?) view that farmers have shot themselves in the foot on subsidies (by apparently voting by a majority to leave) and so now have to face the 'real world' just as coal, steel, shipbuilding, etc. sectors have done...

I still think that the UK outlook is positive overall, but accept that we may face some economic re-balancing in future (which is never pleasant for the individuals on the wrong end of the fulcrum) and that growth may slow in the short-term. But this is Great Britain and we have nearly 1,000 years of 'modern history' since 1066 behind us and we need to keep an eye on the next 1,000 years and not fixate on the next 2-10 only...
 

Alantoo

Well-Known Member
#19
OK so aside from the fact that turkey's not strictly speaking in Europe yet they are OK to join "if they meet the needs "
What your saying is that there are only poor countries left to join ? So given that therefore it stands to reason that the amount of money pledged by the richer countries has to increase in order to fund the "growth" of the EU !
Well that's a great reason to stay in my opinion then
That seems to be a most commendable Christian and charitable attitude....to wish to help others less fortunate than yourself.

Ah...maybe you meant it ironically?

Did you read the article in the link I posted earlier? Did it help answer your previous query? I was fascinated by the machinations going on in the background and the spin put on it by the parties involved...it will be interesting to read about the current background goings on in a few years time...

Alan
 

Yorkie

Well-Known Member
#20
Posted by a French 'friend' on an American Forum. He does have a point...



Hi ES
You may not like or agree with any of the items on your list but at least they were carried out by an Elected UK Government that could be replaced with an alternative at any subsequent Election. Unlike the EU one.
 

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