NRA - Complaining

mrhim

Well-Known Member
Fellow members,

Myself and a friends recently shot at Bisley. We shot on Century at 600yds. When we got to our lane there were a large group right next to us, about 10-12 people in total. Two on the firing point and 10 stood around talking, joking and generally having a laugh.


I radioed the Range Office and asked if we could more down a couple of lanes so as we wouldn't be so crowded and wouldn't be disturbed. The Range Office replied by saying 'that is how the lanes have been set up for the day and they wont be moving them' So basically tough if you don't like it!!


My issue isn't with the group chatting and having a good time as I would have been exactly the same, after all shooting is a social activity. I was just stunned at the ignorance and lack of helpfulness from the Range Office.


Please bare in mind that there was only myself and the other group on the whole 107 lanes. there was no one else forward of us so there was no safety issues preventing us from moving!


Nearly every time I shoot The Range office likes to bunch you up.. Not sure why?

Anyway I Emailed the Chef Exec (Andrew Mercer). I had no reply from the Andrew, so called him. After getting through I asked if he had read my email and had got to the bottom of why this happens and why we couldn't move lane? His reply and attitude I think sums up why the NRA are in such serious trouble.. He said that 'I gets hundreds of emails a day and cant be expected to answer all of them' Wow! I said what even the ones from your paying members and there complaints? 'well I will ask the Range Office to look into this and get back to you' So far it has been two weeks and not a reply!


Mr Mercer, I know your not a shooter and this is just another job to you (One that pays over £100.000+ per year), I believe you came from the leisure Industry and no doubt you will scurry back to it once you have failed in turning around the NRA.. But I am a shooter and have been for many years. I don't get paid to shoot I pay to shoot!


I suggest a big part of the NRA's problem is that if you treated the shooters with respect and value them you may have a thriving business... After all people are paying top dollar to lie in the cold for hours on end. I am staggered as to how you can fail to make money with a resource such as Bisley Camp and with a million licenced shooters?? Maybe it is because your organisation treats them with utter contempt and take there business for granted?!?!
 
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Sle

Well-Known Member
They do seem to act like they are doing us a favour some times, not supplying a service that is being paid for. Trouble is, there is no or very little competition for them so they get away with it.
we do not have much choice really.
 

mrhim

Well-Known Member
Where as I agree, and that is why they do act as they do. We do pay membership and they ultimately answer to us. They are an association and have elections!
 

paul o'

Well-Known Member
it could be its the place the targets have been placed for that day or if you book a marker it may just be they can't just move them as they can't work alone ? funny chaps them NRA they feel there are doing you a favour letting you pay there wages and like to treat you as the low life.
 

Pedro

Well-Known Member
They could well have had a genuine and valid reason. So why not explain that and the world would then have been a better place?
 

Orvil

Well-Known Member
Hi there mrhim

The range Office are using a new computer system that's being rolled out to allocate range space with safety as a paramount with regards to minimum separation distances etc so that might be the reason they didn't want to move you and your party.
Good excuse for stuffing you next to another group? Probably not. Whole range empty of shooters... hmmm
If you don't like where they've put you, by all means complain. I would, you're a fee paying NRA member.
I'm not really surprised that you didn't get a satisfactory resolution from the Chief Exec though, not exactly high on the agenda is it? You'd probably had more joy if you'd gone into the range office and kicked up a stink then and there - ie "I'll be f***ed if I'm going to pay for this shoddy XXXXXX" insert complaint there. You'd have dealt with the Range Office manager or his deputy directly and if the result was not agreeable, by all means elevate it.
As for turning round the NRA, well... I remember the organization 30 years ago. Ano Domini and there would be 10,000 plus pistol shooters all spending money. Much of that cash would go to the NRA coffers and they'd tolerate us unwashed scumbags because we were putting their blessed tr shooters on planes to foreign parts and getting ****ed on cheap bubbly. They ignored semi auto rifle shooters (1988) and turned their backs on pistol shooters(1997). The organization is now fore square in front of ALL forms of shooting and that's thanks mainly to Andrew Mercer.
I acknowledge that the NRA is still partly stuck in the past, it's policy towards members is still abominable (range office) and the bogs are a sh*t hole (no, wait... they got sorted) but what we need to do as NRA members is help them towards a bright, shiny future. Corny? yep. Bypassing the problem and going 2 steps above in management will not get you gratification but the exact response you did in fact get - the man's got bigger fish to fry. If you have an issue with range allocation - take it up with the range office - HEAD ON! - NO PRISONERS!
You do that, you have a direct impact on range fee's and a loss in range fee's will get attention from the top - I guarantee you.
 

reiver

Well-Known Member
Hi there mrhim

The range Office are using a new computer system that's being rolled out to allocate range space with safety as a paramount with regards to minimum separation distances etc so that might be the reason they didn't want to move you and your party.
Good excuse for stuffing you next to another group? Probably not. Whole range empty of shooters... hmmm
If you don't like where they've put you, by all means complain. I would, you're a fee paying NRA member.
I'm not really surprised that you didn't get a satisfactory resolution from the Chief Exec though, not exactly high on the agenda is it? You'd probably had more joy if you'd gone into the range office and kicked up a stink then and there - ie "I'll be f***ed if I'm going to pay for this shoddy XXXXXX" insert complaint there. You'd have dealt with the Range Office manager or his deputy directly and if the result was not agreeable, by all means elevate it.
As for turning round the NRA, well... I remember the organization 30 years ago. Ano Domini and there would be 10,000 plus pistol shooters all spending money. Much of that cash would go to the NRA coffers and they'd tolerate us unwashed scumbags because we were putting their blessed tr shooters on planes to foreign parts and getting ****ed on cheap bubbly. They ignored semi auto rifle shooters (1988) and turned their backs on pistol shooters(1997). The organization is now fore square in front of ALL forms of shooting and that's thanks mainly to Andrew Mercer.
I acknowledge that the NRA is still partly stuck in the past, it's policy towards members is still abominable (range office) and the bogs are a sh*t hole (no, wait... they got sorted) but what we need to do as NRA members is help them towards a bright, shiny future. Corny? yep. Bypassing the problem and going 2 steps above in management will not get you gratification but the exact response you did in fact get - the man's got bigger fish to fry. If you have an issue with range allocation - take it up with the range office - HEAD ON! - NO PRISONERS!
You do that, you have a direct impact on range fee's and a loss in range fee's will get attention from the top - I guarantee you.
Better to kick the organ grinder than the monkey when it comes to dealing with the NRA in the UK
 

8x57

Distinguished Member
Hi there mrhim

The range Office are using a new computer system that's being rolled out to allocate range space with safety as a paramount with regards to minimum separation distances etc so that might be the reason they didn't want to move you and your party.
Good excuse for stuffing you next to another group? Probably not. Whole range empty of shooters... hmmm
If you don't like where they've put you, by all means complain. I would, you're a fee paying NRA member.
I'm not really surprised that you didn't get a satisfactory resolution from the Chief Exec though, not exactly high on the agenda is it? You'd probably had more joy if you'd gone into the range office and kicked up a stink then and there - ie "I'll be f***ed if I'm going to pay for this shoddy XXXXXX" insert complaint there. You'd have dealt with the Range Office manager or his deputy directly and if the result was not agreeable, by all means elevate it.
As for turning round the NRA, well... I remember the organization 30 years ago. Ano Domini and there would be 10,000 plus pistol shooters all spending money. Much of that cash would go to the NRA coffers and they'd tolerate us unwashed scumbags because we were putting their blessed tr shooters on planes to foreign parts and getting ****ed on cheap bubbly. They ignored semi auto rifle shooters (1988) and turned their backs on pistol shooters(1997). The organization is now fore square in front of ALL forms of shooting and that's thanks mainly to Andrew Mercer.
I acknowledge that the NRA is still partly stuck in the past, it's policy towards members is still abominable (range office) and the bogs are a sh*t hole (no, wait... they got sorted) but what we need to do as NRA members is help them towards a bright, shiny future. Corny? yep. Bypassing the problem and going 2 steps above in management will not get you gratification but the exact response you did in fact get - the man's got bigger fish to fry. If you have an issue with range allocation - take it up with the range office - HEAD ON! - NO PRISONERS!
You do that, you have a direct impact on range fee's and a loss in range fee's will get attention from the top - I guarantee you.
Absolutely spot on with all points Orvil.:tiphat:
 

reiver

Well-Known Member
Here is another case of not listening to its membershttp://www.full-bore.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=20410
 

accurate

Well-Known Member
In the North East we may be luckier than most with access to some decent MoD ranges however the costs are high. The NRA have a monopoly position with the MoD meaning any club must register with the NRA before the military (Landmark) will allow a club on. This means that a club with approx. 100 members will have to pay the NRA nearly £1100 for affiliation and per capita fees just for a license and range safety cards that will permit access to ranges.

So with this in mind, when a club needs professional help, the NRA is straight there!! No not really, they do absolutely nothing for anyone outside of Bisley. When local clubs were interested in taking over a police training range that is closing shortly, I know of various people who contacted them but they were not remotely interested in acting as intermediaries, giving professional advice or doing anything really.

If there were options, most clubs I know would use private ground and completely reject the NRA.

As an aside though, it should be noted that dealing with the office staff has always been good so as some of the other posters said, go to the monkey.

Iain
 

8x57

Distinguished Member
Not strictly correct Accurate. MOD ranges can be hired by Home Office approved clubs, in order to gain H.O. approval a club must be affiliated to either the NRA or the NSRA so not quite a monopoly.
Clubs could solely rely upon private ranges and reject the NRA and H.O. approval but would then not benefit from the exemptions granted to approved clubs and only FAC holders could shoot on them using only their own firearms and not club guns.
 

enfieldspares

Well-Known Member
I would not give one penny piece to the NRA and pray for the day when it goes bankrupt and ceases to exist. It has done nothing for shooters in the country since about 1950 or thereabouts. It was abysmal when the 1988 self-loading rifle ban was proposed and, hiring the SAME lobbying concern that had failed in 1988 also was abysmal when the pistol ban came in in 1996.

I am angry that they claim a legitimacy to represent shooting in this country when I would not ever volunteer that legitimacy to them to represent my interests. They are, simply, "the Bisley Shooting Club" and do nothing for the general shooter that I can see. Read the latest "Gun Mart" January 2015 for how they failed one member recently.
 

8x57

Distinguished Member
Enfield I think that some at the NRA have finally woken up and realised that the writing is on the wall for the NRA if they don't make drastic changes and are doing their best but I fear that it is a matter of perhaps "too little too late".

No one can argue that their previous record on protecting shooting sports in general has been nothing short of absolutely bloody atrocious, and that as a result we lost the use of several types of firearm that perhaps could have been retained if supported properly by that organisation. However I think that those in place today may have finally realised this, even if still unprepared to acknowledge the fact publically. I also agree that the charge of being too Bisley orientated rather than acting as a national organisation has some validity but I to think of the possibility of losing a national institution and monument that the NRA and Bisley is, even if it is inevitable, if further changes are not made.

There is no doubt in my mind that if for instance BASC pushed for and achieved similar H.O. recognition as the NRA and NSRA, so that rifle clubs affiliated to that organisation (BASC) could qualify for H.O. approved those clubs further afield that the immediate surrounding area of Bisley would abandon the NRA in favour of the alternative.

I sincerely hope that BASC have already considered the possibility and consequences of the NRA folding and have contingency plans already in place so that they can step in and take up the slack.

Saying all that I still hope that the NRA survives for another 100 odd years or more.
 
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deeangeo

Well-Known Member
Well, this thread seems to summarise us shooters general feelings about the NRA in the UK - USELESS.

Incidentally, that also puts them in the same category of the greatest majority of politicians... not a place to be proud of!
 
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Neumo

Well-Known Member
Interesting thread, as I was thinking that there were signs that things were getting better at Bisley recently. I am thinking of the new computer systems, better web site, opening of Winans range, promoting more courses, auction for young shooters etc...

It is true that for many the 'National Rifle Association' has really meant the 'National Target Rifle Association' and has not been interested in promoting the interests of non TR rifle shooters. Nothing wrong with TR & as this is being posted on a non-TR forum it is not unexpected to hear the odd gripe like this. It would be good if the NRA positioned itself to support the interests of all rifle shoots, and not just the iron sights brigade (of which I am one from time to time).

Likewise their record on lobbying to stop adverse changes to the rifle shooting community has not been the best, being too weak and too late to make any impact on the debates in Westminster.
 

8x57

Distinguished Member
The NRA needs to adopt the motto - CHANGE or DIE.

Neumo you said - "Likewise their record on lobbying to stop adverse changes to the rifle shooting community has not been the best, being too weak and too late to make any impact on the debates in Westminster."

In the case of pistols and pistol shooting sports depite being the governing body at the time the NRA actively discouraged clubs and pistol shooters from lobbying. Their attitude was leave it to us, and we know what that lead to. The fool that I was I followed their advise.
 

reiver

Well-Known Member
The NRA needs to adopt the motto - CHANGE or DIE.

Neumo you said - "Likewise their record on lobbying to stop adverse changes to the rifle shooting community has not been the best, being too weak and too late to make any impact on the debates in Westminster."

In the case of pistols and pistol shooting sports depite being the governing body at the time the NRA actively discouraged clubs and pistol shooters from lobbying. Their attitude was leave it to us, and we know what that lead to. The fool that I was I followed their advise.
:thumb:
 

mrhim

Well-Known Member
Orvil,

A lot of good points. But my mate had already paid at the beginning so there was way of not paying and saying this is the reason why we are not paying for the shoot today. If I had gone in there all guns blazing, (Excuse the pun) it would have been a water off a ducks back to them. They are so ignorant and stuck in there ways that they would be thinking I was just another rude member!

Not being funny but a members complaint should be the top of any head of organisations priority! If I had to phone up No 10 and ask why David Cameron hadn't called me back about people dropping litter on my street and his PA had told me to do one, then fair enough.. But I and WE are directly paying that bloke (Andrew Mercers) wages £100.000+Per Year... I see why the monkeys in the Range Office are rude and unhelpful... As there Organ Grinder leads by example...


God help UK shooting, if that's how they behave at the 'home of UK shooting'
 

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