One to One

sikadog

Well-Known Member
I sold 3 rifles to Holts auctions about a month ago, and I was not going to replace them and then decided to.
I filled in the form and sent in to plod, to be told that when I sold the rifles I should have informed them that I would be applying for a one to one in the future or they would charge me for each variation.
They are going to let me off with the charge this time because I was not aware.
Opinions gents.
 

willie_gunn

Well-Known Member
When did you tell them you were disposing of the rifles and wanted them taken off your ticket?

Was it before you told them you now wanted to replace them?

If so I would say you’ve been treated very fairly indeed.
 
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sikadog

Well-Known Member
Ok I have only been shooting for 61 years and I didn't know, I told them that I had sold the rifles but I didn't know you had to tell the at the time I was looking for a variation but I do now.
I have probably bought and one to one'd about 40 firearms and its the first time this has come up.
And ( plod ) is not made in a derogatory way, I have mates in the police and because of my age I always relate to them as plod. The same way as half the world of people I don't know call me mate.
 

Frank Homes

Well-Known Member
Ok I have only been shooting for 61 years and I didn't know, I told them that I had sold the rifles but I didn't know you had to tell the at the time I was looking for a variation but I do now.
I have probably bought and one to one'd about 40 firearms and its the first time this has come up.
And ( plod ) is not made in a derogatory way, I have mates in the police and because of my age I always relate to them as plod. The same way as half the world of people I don't know call me mate.
This from the HO. Guidance
'There is no set time in which the certificate holder must apply for a replacement authority once their firearm is disposed of.' Thus your Licensing Office are making up their own rules. The fact that you initially decided against replacing them is irrelevant.
 

willie_gunn

Well-Known Member
This from the HO. Guidance
'There is no set time in which the certificate holder must apply for a replacement authority once their firearm is disposed of.' Thus your Licensing Office are making up their own rules. The fact that you initially decided against replacing them is irrelevant.
Is that not related to you keeping the slot open? I.e. there is no time limit on how long you have an open slot if you intend to replace the rifle.

In this case - at least as I read it - the OP informed the police that he was selling the rifles and removing the slots from his ticket, as he originally had no intention to replace them.

Otherwise the implication of the above is that that once you have a slot on your ticket it can never be removed, even when you tell the police you have disposed of the rifles?
 

Frank Homes

Well-Known Member
Is that not related to you keeping the slot open? I.e. there is no time limit if you intend to replace the rifle.

Otherwise the implication of the above is that that once you have a slot on your ticket it can never be removed, even when you tell the police you have disposed of the rifles?
No, 2 separate things but there is a caveat in the guidance on your point, in that if you don't acquire a firearm within a reasonable time period 'they' can question the validity.
 

willie_gunn

Well-Known Member
No, 2 separate things but there is a caveat in the guidance on your point, in that if you don't acquire a firearm within a reasonable time period 'they' can question the validity.

Presumably this would then also be influenced by the seven day guidance mentioned above?

“Where a certificate holder who has disposed of a firearm makes application for a variation upon disposing of the firearm this will not normally attract a fee. This is usually within the seven days allowed for advice of the disposal, although this time may vary between police forces and depend on circumstance. Timings should be checked with the relevant licensing department.”
 

Frank Homes

Well-Known Member
Presumably this would then also be influenced by the seven day guidance mentioned above?

“Where a certificate holder who has disposed of a firearm makes application for a variation upon disposing of the firearm this will not normally attract a fee. This is usually within the seven days allowed for advice of the disposal, although this time may vary between police forces and depend on circumstance. Timings should be checked with the relevant licensing department.”
I think this is rather contradictory and confusing, 7 days is the time required to notify disposal. It's either 1 for 1 or it's not.
 

25 Sharps

Well-Known Member
I sold 3 rifles to Holts auctions about a month ago, and I was not going to replace them and then decided to.
I filled in the form and sent in to plod, to be told that when I sold the rifles I should have informed them that I would be applying for a one to one in the future or they would charge me for each variation.
They are going to let me off with the charge this time because I was not aware.
Opinions gents.
Completely wrong, you must inform of the disposal within 7 days but one for one variations are free, do not have to be for the same calibre (could be rifle for moderator etc.) and there is no time limit other than the life of the certificate!
 

25 Sharps

Well-Known Member
Is that not related to you keeping the slot open? I.e. there is no time limit on how long you have an open slot if you intend to replace the rifle.

In this case - at least as I read it - the OP informed the police that he was selling the rifles and removing the slots from his ticket, as he originally had no intention to replace them.

Otherwise the implication of the above is that that once you have a slot on your ticket it can never be removed, even when you tell the police you have disposed of the rifles?
‘Apply for a replacement authority’ means re-opening the slot so nothing to do with an open slot.

As said above, if you have not filled the slot by renewal then there is ample cause for them to question whether you have good reason in the first place.
 

andyk

Well-Known Member

You’re such a charmer, aren’t you?

This is copied and pasted from the HO guidance.

20.4. In accordance with section 32(1)(c) of the 1968 Act, a fee is payable for a variation (other than when the certificate is being renewed at the same time) that increases the number of firearms to which the certificate relates. No fee is payable where the two elements of a “one for one” variation take place at the same time; that is one firearm is exchanged for another at the same time.

20.5. Where a certificate holder who has disposed of a firearm makes application for a variation upon disposing of the firearm this will not normally attract a fee. This is usually within the seven days allowed for advice of the disposal, although this time may vary between police forces and depend on circumstance. Timings should be checked with the relevant licensing department.


I can’t find/don’t have enough time to find the statutory basis for this but it is clearly how most forces approach this.

Reading it again, there does appear an unsaid suggestion that the 7 days is not set out in statute but Good luck to anyone trying to tell their FLD to waive the £20 given the HO guidance tells them to charge it.
 

25 Sharps

Well-Known Member
You’re such a charmer, aren’t you?

This is copied and pasted from the HO guidance.

20.4. In accordance with section 32(1)(c) of the 1968 Act, a fee is payable for a variation (other than when the certificate is being renewed at the same time) that increases the number of firearms to which the certificate relates. No fee is payable where the two elements of a “one for one” variation take place at the same time; that is one firearm is exchanged for another at the same time.

20.5. Where a certificate holder who has disposed of a firearm makes application for a variation upon disposing of the firearm this will not normally attract a fee. This is usually within the seven days allowed for advice of the disposal, although this time may vary between police forces and depend on circumstance. Timings should be checked with the relevant licensing department.


I can’t find/don’t have enough time to find the statutory basis for this but it is clearly how most forces approach this.

Reading it again, there does appear an unsaid suggestion that the 7 days is not set out in statute but Good luck to anyone trying to tell their FLD to waive the £20 given the HO guidance tells them to charge it.
Sorry, but this question appears every few months.

The answer is always the same, as you say yourself above 7 days is not a set limit and therefore cannot be imposed as such.

A fee is only payable when you increase the number of firearms held this is all the statute allows for, one for one variations are not listed in the table of chargeable fees and therefore they cannot charge a fee!

Even from their own website with no mention of a time limit

The guidance is quite clear


Variations
20.3. No fee is payable on variation:
a) if the total number of firearms to which the certificate relates is not increased
 
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