Other side of the coin.

sikamalc

Administrator
Site Staff
We always seem to get posts about people stalking/syndicates/clubs that occasionally rip people off, but we never seem to get a post about clients/stalkers who let guides and pro stalkers down.
I get a lot of clients stalking with me, some over seas and some from the UK. Overseas bookings are pretty much a done deal once the deposit is paid. But what about the odd time waister or tyre kicker that wastes a guides time or pro stalkers time.

You know the ones that call you about 2 days before they are booked to come and come up with some lame excuse, or the ones that book him and his mates and then when you call back to confirm everything a few days before the whole story has changed, or you find out one of the group has a criminal record!!

I get to see it all, along with many others no doubt. This is not having a pop at anyone, but as we seem to be ever expanding on this site with new members and new stalkers I though it might be an idea to put down some thoughts when approaching someone to book a stalk.

1. Make sure when you speak to the guide that you are clear about what your experience is and what you would like to stalk.
2. Make sure you have the appropriate condition on your FAC.
3. Make sure you give all your details via email or text, name, date of booking, email address and mobile number.
4. If you make a booking STICK to it, don't make lame excuses for not wanting to go, and if a deposit is paid don't expect to get it back either.
5. Be on time on the day of the outing, DONT be late. Make sure of your route and how long it will take to get there.
6. If for some reason you have to cancel make sure you give PLENTY of notice to the guide or company you are booked with.
7. IF you are undertaking a Level 2 stalk, make sure you have all your kit and that you have the EXPERIENCE TO UNDERTAKE that stalk. IF not ask.
8. If you are booking for other friends to join you MAKE SURE they are committed to come, people often let you down within a group. Get a firm commitment

Finally I think personally that sometimes as some people think stalking is just their hobby that this is NOT a SERIOUS occupation when you are running it as a business. Quite often people who let the stalker/guide down have no idea of the preparation that goes into taking clients out, in particular if there are more than one involved. Extra guides have to be employed or asked to help, this is someone's time and money.

If you play around and let people down you will find that word gets around, and before long your invites and places to stalk has shrunk.
 

bowji john

Well-Known Member
I've experienced this where I've booked a paid for a stalk with someone else on behalf of a mate

So called mate then comes up with some lame excuse at the last minute leaving me with the bill

On further investigation the true reasons have been

1. Wife is pregnant and she thought it would be bad karma if I went and killed a deer
2. Wife disproves
3. Got cold feet (this last and more honest reason) is given less frequently
 

CarlW

Well-Known Member
We always seem to get posts about people stalking/syndicates/clubs that occasionally rip people off, but we never seem to get a post about clients/stalkers who let guides and pro stalkers down.
I get a lot of clients stalking with me, some over seas and some from the UK. Overseas bookings are pretty much a done deal once the deposit is paid. But what about the odd time waister or tyre kicker that wastes a guides time or pro stalkers time.

You know the ones that call you about 2 days before they are booked to come and come up with some lame excuse, or the ones that book him and his mates and then when you call back to confirm everything a few days before the whole story has changed, or you find out one of the group has a criminal record!!

I get to see it all, along with many others no doubt. This is not having a pop at anyone, but as we seem to be ever expanding on this site with new members and new stalkers I though it might be an idea to put down some thoughts when approaching someone to book a stalk.

1. Make sure when you speak to the guide that you are clear about what your experience is and what you would like to stalk.
2. Make sure you have the appropriate condition on your FAC.
3. Make sure you give all your details via email or text, name, date of booking, email address and mobile number.
4. If you make a booking STICK to it, don't make lame excuses for not wanting to go, and if a deposit is paid don't expect to get it back either.
5. Be on time on the day of the outing, DONT be late. Make sure of your route and how long it will take to get there.
6. If for some reason you have to cancel make sure you give PLENTY of notice to the guide or company you are booked with.
7. IF you are undertaking a Level 2 stalk, make sure you have all your kit and that you have the EXPERIENCE TO UNDERTAKE that stalk. IF not ask.
8. If you are booking for other friends to join you MAKE SURE they are committed to come, people often let you down within a group. Get a firm commitment

Finally I think personally that sometimes as some people think stalking is just their hobby that this is NOT a SERIOUS occupation when you are running it as a business. Quite often people who let the stalker/guide down have no idea of the preparation that goes into taking clients out, in particular if there are more than one involved. Extra guides have to be employed or asked to help, this is someone's time and money.

If you play around and let people down you will find that word gets around, and before long your invites and places to stalk has shrunk.
I do find that your 8th point is the source of much conflict. There is generally one well-organised, well-meaning and sensible guy in each group. The kind of bloke who makes stuff happen. His mates, however, are the type that never learned to iron their own shirts. They mess about, they hum, they ha, they commit and they uncommit. And all the while, the sensible guy (the one with the iron), loyally conceals this mess from the unsuspecting operator/guide/outfitter, in the hope that he will be able to get all of the cats in the pen eventually. He often fails and the operator pays the price.

Personally, I would rather that the smart guy shared his doubt with me. It then gives me a better view of the likelihood of any given hunt going ahead. Also, often one can work with that guy to help him to get his mates on board. Otherwise, it is a lonely life being the only grown-up amongst a bunch of man-childs...
 

bowji john

Well-Known Member
I do find that your 8th point is the source of much conflict. There is generally one well-organised, well-meaning and sensible guy in each group. The kind of bloke who makes stuff happen. His mates, however, are the type that never learned to iron their own shirts. They mess about, they hum, they ha, they commit and they uncommit. And all the while, the sensible guy (the one with the iron), loyally conceals this mess from the unsuspecting operator/guide/outfitter, in the hope that he will be able to get all of the cats in the pen eventually. He often fails and the operator pays the price.

Personally, I would rather that the smart guy shared his doubt with me. It then gives me a better view of the likelihood of any given hunt going ahead. Also, often one can work with that guy to help him to get his mates on board. Otherwise, it is a lonely life being the only grown-up amongst a bunch of man-childs...
Brilliant - simply brilliant - there goes a man that has walked the path many many times
 

Kjf

Well-Known Member
I do find that your 8th point is the source of much conflict. There is generally one well-organised, well-meaning and sensible guy in each group. The kind of bloke who makes stuff happen. His mates, however, are the type that never learned to iron their own shirts. They mess about, they hum, they ha, they commit and they uncommit. And all the while, the sensible guy (the one with the iron), loyally conceals this mess from the unsuspecting operator/guide/outfitter, in the hope that he will be able to get all of the cats in the pen eventually. He often fails and the operator pays the price.

Personally, I would rather that the smart guy shared his doubt with me. It then gives me a better view of the likelihood of any given hunt going ahead. Also, often one can work with that guy to help him to get his mates on board. Otherwise, it is a lonely life being the only grown-up amongst a bunch of man-childs...
Bang on CarlW


Talk about it first with your pals wether it be a day fishing /stalking or a holiday etc etc, Tell them you need cash up front for this date (date 4 weeks from chat etc etc) cash up front , when you meet up in 4 weeks collect the cash,

Then book the trip, ( your group of 6 will become a group of 4 or even 2 lol)

book it when the cash is in your hand, and then you only pay for the committed blokes ie the ones who really want to go and have the means to do it

no better commitment than cash

KJF
 

FISH BOY

Well-Known Member
I do find that your 8th point is the source of much conflict. There is generally one well-organised, well-meaning and sensible guy in each group. The kind of bloke who makes stuff happen. His mates, however, are the type that never learned to iron their own shirts. They mess about, they hum, they ha, they commit and they uncommit. And all the while, the sensible guy (the one with the iron), loyally conceals this mess from the unsuspecting operator/guide/outfitter, in the hope that he will be able to get all of the cats in the pen eventually. He often fails and the operator pays the price.

Personally, I would rather that the smart guy shared his doubt with me. It then gives me a better view of the likelihood of any given hunt going ahead. Also, often one can work with that guy to help him to get his mates on board. Otherwise, it is a lonely life being the only grown-up amongst a bunch of man-childs...
I am that guy...

Funny thing is though that the people who let me down always make a noise when I have a good day.

Malc - always here as a last min back up fella
 

zambezi

Well-Known Member
I made a CWD booking with a UK operator, confirmed via email [actually the PH also linked with me on social media] and then booked annual leave to make the agreed dates which required that I travel and stay at a B&B. At the eleventh hour (and past the point I could have my leave request rescinded) the PH cried off. Rather lamely, he had an associate email me with a different stalk, for different dates. Wholly unacceptable.
 

Cootmeurer

Well-Known Member
Malc,

That is why I respect what you do - I couldn't do it. I have tried. Spent 1 year as a guide. The excellent clients are always excellent, the moderate clients are tolerable, but the incompetent/unreliable clients were just unbearable for me. I am out this weekend on a gratis/free event to take some veterans out for beaver. Of the original 4 (two primary, two backup) two already backed out with excuses. This is for a free hunt - cannot imagine how creative the excuses would be if there was money on the table
 

jimmy milnes

Well-Known Member
Malc,

That is why I respect what you do - I couldn't do it. I have tried. Spent 1 year as a guide. The excellent clients are always excellent, the moderate clients are tolerable, but the incompetent/unreliable clients were just unbearable for me. I am out this weekend on a gratis/free event to take some veterans out for beaver. Of the original 4 (two primary, two backup) two already backed out with excuses. This is for a free hunt - cannot imagine how creative the excuses would be if there was money on the table
I remember going beaver hunting as a teen but it was never free, it always cost me in larger an black
Cheers
Jimmy
 

Klenchblaize

Well-Known Member
This will no doubt sound like someone bemoaning the passing of department store life as per "Are You Being Served?" but I'll chance it:

Deerstalking has become no more than another internet available, book at your leisure, bucket list-like experience that requires little commitment and even less consideration of what one is actually engaging in.

And to compound matters we have coffee geek supping Clients from East and West London, along with those who shamelessly slip a landowner the odd "monkey" for occasional access to your permission because they live in a trailer, don't pay taxes and couldn't give a damn if their scope is attached by other than CONETROL rings & mounts!

K
Ps: I've not experienced either of the above first-hand but strongly suspect Sikamalc has?
 

alan

Well-Known Member
Hi
Had a guy wanting to do a level 2 (the 3 ICRs) Time and date agreed, (on my ground) went and checked out deer locations for morning stalks (4 mornings on the trot) wrote up 3 ICRs (this was before the electronic copy). All ready for the Saturday morning. He phones on the Friday night to tell me his Portfolio run out 2 weeks previous.......... after 3 years.
I said "Oh dear, what a pity, never mind"
Never got a penny
Never got a sorry.
Sh!t happens
If your reading this, you know who you are....
Alan
 
I don't take out anymore stalkers, but I do guide fly fishing, in the all the years I carried out both simultaneously I only had 3 issues, 2 that left me out of pocket as I lost 2 days during my busiest times of the year, I didn't take deposits, one no show, the other thought his last minute business meeting was more important than me making a living, but the 3rd guy did appreciate I would lose business, and paid me in full for 2 outings, a guy off here actually, there are some very decent people still out there.
Cheers
Richard
 

Odders

Well-Known Member
I used to organise wreck fishing trips for customers who used my business
There was never a single occasion where someone in one way or another either left me out of pocket or caused issues that ruined the enjoyment for myself and/or everyone else.
Once I get things set up, I'll be very selective who I take stalking.
 

75

Well-Known Member
I only had 3 issues, 2 that left me out of pocket as I lost 2 days during my busiest times of the year, I didn't take deposits, one no show, the other thought his last minute business meeting was more important than me making a living, but the 3rd guy did appreciate I would lose business, and paid me in full for 2 outings, a guy off here actually, there are some very decent people still out there.
Cheers
Richard
I also let you down, Richard. A couple of years back when my wife was induced early for our first child. You were incredibly decent about it, but we had discussed the pregnancy and timing in advance. I did try to make amends the following season with a booking but sadly you’re not taking folk out any more (probably due to folk like me trying to squeeze a final stalk in just before a baby is due!!).

From a client side, however, I think it’s important that guides recognise how much planning goes in for the decent folk. Accommodation, time off work, family plans moved around etc. I had a day cancelled at 24hrs notice just before Christmas due to a vehicle breakdown. I know these things happen and it’s no one’s fault, but when the date has been in the diary 10 months and you get a matter of fact phone call without even an apology, it’s not great. Still waiting to hear back on that one about when my replacement day will be. Short notice doesn’t work for me and work, so no idea if I’ll ever get out on that ground.

There was also an occasion a well known guide screwed up my booking on sika and I was left with no accommodation. I’d spoken to him the week before and he didn’t let on until I was actually in the car, driving north!! Never once apologised!!

I guess the message from my side (having been let down a few times) is sh*t happens, it’s how you manage it that really matters.
 

zambezi

Well-Known Member
There was also an occasion a well known guide screwed up my booking...
It is horrible when plans have to be scrapped because the other party pulls out. Per this post, and my experience, last minute cancellations are not the sole preserve of clients. Some operators are guilty too. The industry would definitely benefit from more personal commitment and integrity all round.
 

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