Otter spread

Bowland blades

Well-Known Member
I'd say otters are fairly far down the list when it comes to threats against salmon and trout.


Present moment definitely! Rivers where far more regulary polluted in the 50s 60s 70s yet salmon runs certainly exceeded today . However we didn't have the amount of cormorant inland by any means nor where goosander ( at least goosender are true native birds to our river ) . We will loose salmon and seatrout from English rivers within my lifetime especially with the increased building of hydro unless we take this serious
Let me make this crystal clear though its not today's otter population that's of concern at all , no! It's the future population!!! Look to the badger for example , it never needed full legal protection regardscits population figures , just a tag on to prevent a few illegally baiting them with fighting dogs .
Of course I realise no Mp has the nuts to ever say what I can but no animal or bird should ever receive all of time protection . Simply put we plainly ain't got the political will to keep ballance! Heck have you seen the fuss over grey squirrel culls and they are an overpopulation invasive species that threaten the last of our native reds , birds and property / forestry.
 

willie_gunn

Well-Known Member
30 years ago otter where near extinct , now they are in every county

100 years ago otter were in every county.

The otter population was then decimated for a variety of reasons.

In the intervening period mankind has stuffed rivers and ponds full of stocked fish, generally for our amusement.

Any “grand plan” for the future needs to recognise that everything has to be under consideration, and not just focus on one species, pastime or the desire of any single lobby group.
 

Hornet 6

Well-Known Member
When otters are in rivers they never were years ago, when they are released in to new habitat that is a nature reserve, where they were refused permission to release otters, because of where it is we have a problem that will never go away, and will only get worse.

Neil.
 

TURNBOLT

Well-Known Member
Wait on , talk to me again in a decade ! 4 pups , 4 litters of 4 + previous overvand over with no natural preditors 100% protection . How many things have gone off the protected list in the UK? It could answer the badger problem as regards cullers security if they just put them on a short season but no
Like the badger no natural preditors , unlike the badger they have very good transport links.
30 years ago otter where near extinct , now they are in every county
Well said . What with Badgers,Otters ,Pine Marten and birds of prey being protected (sheer folly).In 20/30 years there will be very little to see in the countryside .
 
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landkeeper

Well-Known Member
All these predators were there in numbers probably exceeding present numbers, they will find a natural population density through time .
Admittedly artificial food sources are for the time being bolstering numbers , but if anyone ever thinks licences to cull will ever be issued to protect stocked fish or game birds i think you are dillusional .
The badger cull has only come into force because its costing billions of pounds pa in a vital food production industry ,even thats caused monumental controversy , there is no way bops or otters pime martens etc will ever feature on a licenced cull program to protect whats classed as a lesuire industry
 

Bowland blades

Well-Known Member
All these predators were there in numbers probably exceeding present numbers, they will find a natural population density through time .
Admittedly artificial food sources are for the time being bolstering numbers , but if anyone ever thinks licences to cull will ever be issued to protect stocked fish or game birds i think you are dillusional .
The badger cull has only come into force because its costing billions of pounds pa in a vital food production industry ,even thats caused monumental controversy , there is no way bops or otters pime martens etc will ever feature on a licenced cull program to protect whats classed as a lesuire industry
You cannot have ballance in an unbalanced environment! Britain will never be balanced while the population of people is even remotely like it has been the last few hundred or more like thousands of years . Even then if that happens species native will disappear and others will massively increase
 

Bowland blades

Well-Known Member
I'd say otters are fairly far down the list when it comes to threats against salmon and trout.

What about bank voles ? Salmon and seatrout ? Sand Martin? Kingfisher , dippers ? All my knives gone ( many thousands in value ) I can handle as they where never part of the balance in Lancashire.
We are responsible for maintaining ballance not allowing a onve rare to the point of species to proliferate to a stage that more species are taken to extinction . Emotion can never become a tool of wildlife management and neither can public opinion as the majority do not understand and are too emotionally influenced to be allowed a say .
 

JTO

Well-Known Member
An otter was seen on the RSPB reserve in Weymouth a few years ago, so they built an artificial holt for it to nest in, at the same time that they were trying to encourage Bitterns to next in the same area.
 

Fair Hill

Well-Known Member
What about bank voles ? Salmon and seatrout ? Sand Martin? Kingfisher , dippers ? All my knives gone ( many thousands in value ) I can handle as they where never part of the balance in Lancashire.
We are responsible for maintaining ballance not allowing a onve rare to the point of species to proliferate to a stage that more species are taken to extinction . Emotion can never become a tool of wildlife management and neither can public opinion as the majority do not understand and are too emotionally influenced to be allowed a say .
Sorry but I have no idea what you are on about.
 

Bowland blades

Well-Known Member
Either that or alcohol.

It all makes sense to him anyway so that's the main thing.
It's actually this dambed auto correct koi but once I type it has plainly changed it to knives because I type that a lot ! Without my glasses I missed that . I lost a load of valuable koi that where family pets very friendly . Just the brains eaten one night biggest was 20 lb plus
Like I stated I accept they wherecnot natural , justbthink what could happen to salmon , seatrout , birds voles etc
 

uptonogood

Well-Known Member
I think where otters have to work for their food they eat more than the brains .I’ve seen a bream on our fishery with half of it gone ,scales everywhere .In fact I probably disturbed it as the fish was still quivering .
Like any predator in the wild ,a glut brings out the worst in them .Rats will kill chicks in numbers ,stoats ,mink and weasel kill to excess with the obvious one the fox .They are hardwired to cache food .
If they took one to eat whole we would look on it as an inconvenience but see red when wholesale ,wanton killing of our stock or pets takes place .
Its our fault for not protecting the stock but still we seek to exact revenge .
Ive lost count of the times I’ve been called to losses only for me to look around the place and see an open buffet ,point this out to be met with solemn faces .Fence it proper or lose it ,simple really .
 

willie_gunn

Well-Known Member
It's actually this dambed auto correct koi but once I type it has plainly changed it to knives because I type that a lot ! Without my glasses I missed that . I lost a load of valuable koi that where family pets very friendly . Just the brains eaten one night biggest was 20 lb plus
Like I stated I accept they wherecnot natural , justbthink what could happen to salmon , seatrout , birds voles etc

The point about sea trout and salmon is that they are migratory species, returning to the rivers they were born in to spawn. Otters may have an impact, but that pales into insignificance compared to what is caught at sea, the predation by seals, the effect of fish farming, etc. Worrying about the otter’s effect on these species is a case of “Nero fiddling while Rome burns”!

I am very sorry to hear about your Koi carp - they are lovely animals.
 

Bowland blades

Well-Known Member
The point about sea trout and salmon is that they are migratory species, returning to the rivers they were born in to spawn. Otters may have an impact, but that pales into insignificance compared to what is caught at sea, the predation by seals, the effect of fish farming, etc. Worrying about the otter’s effect on these species is a case of “Nero fiddling while Rome burns”!

I am very sorry to hear about your Koi carp - they are lovely animals.

YES but we controlled otter I the uppercreaches . Things for Atlantic salmon are very bleak but I do believe we have a chance to save an important species here for the whole system but only if it gets 100% .
So many other things rely on the salmon and seatrout runs yes even the otter
 

uptonogood

Well-Known Member
Always same when you’ve not got a camera isn’t it .Just in from dog walk and saw an mink opposite bank in a wooded area .Dogs knew it was there but im shooting today so could do without the drama .We only have a small trout stream through the village ,about 6 m at its widest and very shallow .Used to be a prolific rainbow ,brown trout fishery but not seen one for a few years .
Two lesser egrets and a greater got up too further down .Really must start taking the camera .
The lad who’s had his pond visited by otters has seen it twice more .Pond is netted from herons but its getting under ,taking his gold fish .Pond is in fully lit area with otter not bothered at all .
Hes making changes to it soon ,new fence and change of fish so he’s happy to watch it ,for now 👍🏻
 
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