Passed land and does it ever get passed without a police walk/check

Themidlandstalker

Active Member
Just a question that probably varies between constabularys but shouldn't. If you have written permission to control vermin on land (3x permissions adjoining each other but totalling around 9acres) most of which is woodland/show flower gardens with 2 footpaths running through and you want to put in for .22 as I do but the land hasn't been passed, how many times do the forces actually come out to inspect it to make sure its suitable.

I know the land very well and can show all the places on the land that a safe shot could be taken with the relevant regard to backstop, footpath direction etc etc but I'm worried as its woodland/ garden and not open enough to warrant a .22. I'm currently using air but sneaking within 30yd or so just isn't possible sometimes. Thermal and longer range would be very beneficial to get the job done more effectively and efficiently.
Would fac air be a comprise if the officer decided against it for .22 .
For info I'm still awaiting my ticket from Aug due to covid I presume but I want to get as much background done so when they come I can talk and know what I'm talking about. I've been shooting for a while now with air, as well as at a club and shotgun so I would like to think I'm a safe shot.
 

VSS

Well-Known Member
In the "old days", when I had a closed ticket, I got my land cleared simply by showing a map to my FEO, and discussing with him the features of the land, the topography, the location of footpaths etc etc.
It was my first FAC, 22lr, on a fairly small plot of land.
 

Craigsaun

Well-Known Member
Before my ticket went open I had to have forms from the police Fac department called document 4 . I had to put my details and land owners details . They would then go out to check the land if every thing was ok they would send me a map with any unsafe areas on it
 

Stalker1962

Well-Known Member
Christ on the Cross!

I despair.

For the love of God:- authorise the man/woman/non-binary/whateverdoesnotoffendyou.

It matters not a fig, what calibre you are granted; nor what patch of God's great earth is deemed suitable by a non-shooting autocrat.

If you are "trusted" with a .410 shotgun you must be - (call me old fashioned) trusted with a bazooka.

Jeremy Bamber. Two fing words, Actually three words. Jeremy fing Bamber.

Did an awful lot of damage with a .22.

Do I think the laws need "tweeking"?

Yes I do.
 

Themidlandstalker

Active Member
Christ on the Cross!

I despair.

For the love of God:- authorise the man/woman/non-binary/whateverdoesnotoffendyou.

It matters not a fig, what calibre you are granted; nor what patch of God's great earth is deemed suitable by a non-shooting autocrat.

If you are "trusted" with a .410 shotgun you must be - (call me old fashioned) trusted with a bazooka.

Jeremy Bamber. Two fing words, Actually three words. Jeremy fing Bamber.

Did an awful lot of damage with a .22.

Do I think the laws need "tweeking"?

Yes I do.
I agree, but as a newcomer to deer stalking and going on paid stalks to gain experience, all firearms are lethal in the wrong hands and all are safe in the right hands but in inexperienced hands a .308 and no sense of how far that bullet can travel without something stopping it I would say is more lethal than a .410 . Is this the way the police think I wonder??
 

Foxyboy43

Well-Known Member
Hmmm! Different strokes....... My FAC states " .... On lands for which the holder has lawful authority to shoot over. the holder must ensure the land is suitable for this type and calibre of firearm and the use of the firearm on the land presents no danger to public safety" This applies to my shotguns, rimfire and c/f rifles on what is an "Open Certificate" the important point being that I alone am responsible for anything that happens on lands which I have decided is suitable when the licensed firearms are in use.
The police used to insist on OS Maps delineating lands and having a conducted tour before considering approval. Then the proverbial penny dropped when someone realised that by "approving" the lands the licensing body would be culpable and presumably liable for damages if someone/something was shot accidentally by the person to whom they had given an FAC which listed said land as "suitable". So - for a refreshing change the litigious society which we now inhabit worked in our favour. Exceedingly rare and something to be savoured!
On the point about bazookas - in this part of the world their modern equivalent (RPG7et al) used to be in common usage but always "off" certificate and there was never any issue about "approving" land! Go figure!
 

Heym SR20

Well-Known Member
I would suggest that with any first application give the licencing authorities as much as you can. Include copies of authority to shoot. Include a Map of the area, and include within that map details of footpaths, high seats, topgraphy etc. Photos or 3 dimensional google earth images will help. If you are part of a syndicate, or with the landowner do a simple safety assessment etc.

The one concern any FEO has is public safety - are you able to demonstrate you understand the safety implications.

if you provide good evidence for the file that really helps.

it doesn't take much to add a good covering letter to your application but make sure it answers the key questions.

read the guidance notes - these are for the police and help them make their decision. Make sure your covering letter and supporting info covers such information.

like all things it is an impression built on evidence, and first impressions count. But would you be happy if Billy Bellend was granted an open licence for a 308 with no good reason. Perhaps not.
 

Themidlandstalker

Active Member
Thanks very much for the answers. I am going to put a A4 Google satellite map of the land, it is very much woodland and only two very small open areas so I'm not getting my hopes up too much as I wouldn't take shots into this woodland from many places. The banks to the wood are steep so I could shoot towards the base of the bank so it is a natural backstop but at the top of the wood is a public footpath so that would be a no go area.
I will write it all up as you have explained and even if I don't get it passed , at least it will show them that I have already nearly disregarded a lot of the land I have to shoot on because of safety implications. There are however places that safe shots can be taken so I'm also hopeful. I know the land well and I hope that will come across when I list the areas I think are safe and know where they are not .
As I haven't done this before I was just questioning whether or not the police have the time, resources and inclination to actually assess every piece of un passed land that they come into contact with, after all, surely if they allow you to hold a fac licence they agree that you are responsible enough to have access to any firearm and use it safely. I have experience through the club I'm a member of over the last 12 months of .22 , .223 and a bit of black powder. Should l ask some club members to maybe write a short letter stating they think I am safe, if of course they think I am? Cheers.
 

Rhodesianjess

Well-Known Member
I was told by my FEO, fair while ago to be fair, that he was licensing me, not the calibre of firearm. In his opinion, you are or are not an idiot whilst using a firearm, from 22 to 600 nitro!
Appreciate that things are different now, however some FEO's still apply common sense. Wishing you well.
 

badbob

Well-Known Member
I seem to remember a warning " DANGEROUS WITHIN ONE MILE"
using that as a guideline, little land in England would be classed as "safe"
so its really down to constant attention to safety by the shooter.
I would not like to approve this land or that land as "safe", rather ,the licence holder himself.
The approved land scenario is usually with first applications and renewals.
 

cjm1066

Well-Known Member
Is there a written criteria for safe land?

Look at an approved range, it is safe for shots in a tightly constrained direction.

Land is neither safe or dangerous, the police approval process is akin to snake oil salesmen.
 

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