Patch out

Stringer

Well-Known Member
I have been trying to clean my brand new Sako 85 (.243) barrel with "Patch Out" but I am struggling to get it totally clean.

The rifle is only one month old and in my enthusiasm on my first outing I fired around 30 rounds before cleaning it by soaking it with “Patch Out” for 24 hours. I then patched it through until the patches were clean & put it away.

On my next outing I had read their web site re breaking in a barrel and followed their instructions and fired 5 groups of 2, but cannot get a clean patch after soaking for 20 minutes between groups. I then tried soaking it for another 24 hours and spent a whole evening soaking and patching (Accelerator & Patch out) but after every soak the first patch always has some (quite a lot) of blue.

I have e mailed them for some guidance but just thought I'd ask you guys what you think in my impatience.

Can you suggest anything I can do, or am I now stuck with copper in my barrel?

Will I be able to start again and re break the barrel in or have I lost the opportunity by not doing it straight off?


Many thanks in advance
 

Stayangry

Well-Known Member
The debate over breaking in barrels continues unabated, with great zeal being shown on both sides.

Some see it as a useful aid to accuracy and easy cleaning whilst others see it as a waste of time and effort.

Personally, I am somewhere in the middle - I'm pretty sure that it works, but I'm not convinced that the advantages are worth bothering with for a pure hunting rifle.

As for your rifle, never fear - any barrel can be cleaned with enough effort and you have only fired a few rounds.

I would suggest experimenting with different solvents. They vary widely in their ability to remove copper.

My personal favourite is the Tetra brand, a sort of gel that sticks to the inside of the barrel - this really shifts the metal.

Also, bear in mind that the brushes and jags you are using may also contain copper and you will therefore get a bit of blue staining on your patches, even with a clean barrel.

James
 

Offroad Gary

Account Suspended
when i clean my rifles (which is not very often) i use hoppes copper solvent and patches. no brushes.

push a couple of wet ones through to get the crap out, then leave 20 mins minimum, push a couple of dry ones through. repeat this until they come out clean.

then do it all again the next night. it will then be clean and copper free (in my experience).

then just fire a fouling round, and you should be back on zero.

then, as long as you can see daylight through it, dont clean it. if you get the urge to clean it, dont.

this method works for me and my guns, it may or may not work for you and yours.

i also have perfect boresnake cleaning instructions..

1. take boresnake.
2. throw it in bin.
3. use gun.

:evil:

happy hunting :lol:
 

Pete E

Well-Known Member
Stringer,

Griff who posts on here is the UK Importer/ Distributor of the Wipe/Patch out line of products, I am sure he will chime in when he reads this..

As to breaking in your barrel ect...I've done it on some of my rifles and not others, and I can't really see the difference. If I were shooting .25" groups with a full race spec bench rest rifle, perhaps I might, but I don't, so its not something I worry about.

I use patch-out and I'm pleased with it...I normally give my barrels a scrub with a bore brush and some conventional power solvent and when the barrel is reasonably clean, I switch to running through patches only soaked in Patch Out...

Regards,

Pete
 

Offroad Gary

Account Suspended
Nick,

just my experience with them!

i had massive learing curve sorting out my first centerfire (prohunter .243) in terms of cleaning regime. i now have r93's in .243 and .308 and i'm applying the same regime. (fully clean them when you get them, both were second hand, and then dont clean them)

perhaps its because i use/keep them dirty, that the boresnake just messes things up and screws up the groups.

if you operate a cleaner barrel, perhaps the effect is not so drastic??

i'll stick with my method, until it lets me down.

i carry the boresnake, but if i was forced to use it i wouldnt shoot at live quarry until i'd had chance to check zero.


cheers
 

snowstorm

Well-Known Member
What would be your approach with a brand new rifle before firing? Clean or not?

Now being the proud owner of one, I have read everything from clean it out beforehand and then fire a round a day for a week, and clean after each, through to just get on and fire the thing.
 

Offroad Gary

Account Suspended
snowstorm said:
What would be your approach with a brand new rifle before firing? Clean or not?

Now being the proud owner of one, I have read everything from clean it out beforehand and then fire a round a day for a week, and clean after each, through to just get on and fire the thing.
i would fire a few, clean, fire a few, clean..

then give it a go without cleaning it for a while.

then i would pull a boresnake through it, and use it to see if the groups change/move.

then i would fully de-copper it and start again, and find out what you gun likes, in my small experience, they are all different.

what you dont want to do while getting to know the gun is move/change/alter anything else. just get it zeroed, dont touch rings/bases/stock bolts etc.. just concentrate on getting it grouping well and understanding what effects its performance.

just my humble opinion. others will or will not agree!!
 

Pete E

Well-Known Member
Put me down as another who doesn't like boresnakes..

I suppose the are ok for a quick clean perhaps if you're away stalking, but for regular cleaning I prefer a Tipton Carbon fiber one piece rod...
 

Andy L

Well-Known Member
Had a boresnake for about 18 months. It is great. Nce colours and very strong. Never used it though!!! :lol:
 

legaleagle69

Well-Known Member
Boresnakes are great for what they were made for...shotguns :D

rifle I clen after a day at the range, or two weeks later if you forget :oops: like the last time

If you want to take up bench rest worry otherwise I also like to follow the daylight theory of barrel care, I am just a lazy sod and can't shoot for toffee anyway :lol:
 

re'M'ington

Well-Known Member
bucksden said:
Nick,

just my experience with them!

i had massive learing curve sorting out my first centerfire (prohunter .243) in terms of cleaning regime. i now have r93's in .243 and .308 and i'm applying the same regime. (fully clean them when you get them, both were second hand, and then dont clean them)

perhaps its because i use/keep them dirty, that the boresnake just messes things up and screws up the groups.

if you operate a cleaner barrel, perhaps the effect is not so drastic??

i'll stick with my method, until it lets me down.

i carry the boresnake, but if i was forced to use it i wouldnt shoot at live quarry until i'd had chance to check zero.


cheers
Does that mean that you never clean your rifle Bucksden? Not even run an oiled brush through? And,how long have you left any of your rifles before cleaning?...............Martin.
 

tartinjock

Distinguished Member
I clean my T3 lite .243 Stainless/Synthetic after every use, I find that it has no effect on zero what so ever. Might just be lucky. I can't remember what I do with the .308 t3 Tacticle, it's been that long since I used it, but that's going to change this week when I get it sorted. I now don't bother cleaning my .22 though, enough wax in there to help the Wax Museum do a hulk model.

TJ
 

Offroad Gary

Account Suspended
re'M'ington said:
bucksden said:
Nick,

just my experience with them!

i had massive learing curve sorting out my first centerfire (prohunter .243) in terms of cleaning regime. i now have r93's in .243 and .308 and i'm applying the same regime. (fully clean them when you get them, both were second hand, and then dont clean them)

perhaps its because i use/keep them dirty, that the boresnake just messes things up and screws up the groups.

if you operate a cleaner barrel, perhaps the effect is not so drastic??

i'll stick with my method, until it lets me down.

i carry the boresnake, but if i was forced to use it i wouldnt shoot at live quarry until i'd had chance to check zero.


cheers
Does that mean that you never clean your rifle Bucksden? Not even run an oiled brush through? And,how long have you left any of your rifles before cleaning?...............Martin.
Martin,

i definately dont put oil in the rifles ( i used to), but what i have found works for me is no clean, or total clean.

no clean means nothing, just a wipe over with an oily rag on the outside.

total clean means full decopper using hoppes copper solvent, i do this over 2 evenings minimum. i then just dry the barrel with patches. i dont use a brush, and i use a mop to get the solvent really in there once its almost clean.

problems i had were with a prohunter(my first centrefire) and i was cleaning it after each use, using oil, brushes, patches, boresnakes all kinds of things. sometimes it grouped well, sometimes it didnt, sometimes the groups moved, sometimes they didnt... i thought it was the forend, so i had the stock stiffened, barrel floated, second bipod stud fitted.. but in the end what i found was that the cleaning regime effected its accuracy. (this may have been because it was new) when i got rid of it it had had about 350 rounds through it, and shot very well, always consistant. when fully de coppered and dryed, 1st one out would fly an inch off, then everything after that was bang on and getting tighter as it got more fouled.

i've currently got .243 and .308 blaser barrels, and all indications are that the same regime is going to work for them.

i cleaned them both when i got them, and the .308 has had 90 rounds through it, its still grouping well, bang on every time. the .243 has had less than 40 rounds through it, some reloads, but its grouping well with factory stuff, and ok with the reloads. the prohunter i left for about 100 rounds and when i sold it (dirty) it was still grouping perfectly. the .243 blaser barrell that i got from McCleods, was previously owned by a stalker that i shoot with down in hampshire, and that shot cloverleafs with fedarel 100gns, and had never been cleaned.

but, each to their own, what works for me might not work for others.

the bugger is that i actually enjoy cleaning them, and have to resist doing it :evil:
i also found that oiling the moderator threw the groups for about 10 rounds, so the new T4 will just be left to rust.

also, i had some ammo made for me by a local guy, and just the act of measuring the col of the rifle with a cleaning rod, disturbed the barrell enough to throw the groups out until a few rounds had been put down there. :confused:

and the blaser .243/308 swaps back and forth with no change of zero, whatsoever :p
 

smullery

Well-Known Member
Picked up my first rifle two weeks before going to Africa. Managed 30 rounds on the range to zero and play around with factory ammo. Only on 120 ish rounds now and one "pull" with a boresnake because of slipping and the muzzle hitting soft earth.

Worried, no. Had long dialogue with Chuck Hawkes about cleaning and his bottom line was;

HUNTING, that's what is important. Bench cloverleafs aren't. He cleans roughly every 200 field rounds and then only 10 afterwards to get the barrel right.

Good enough for me. I shoot a check round on every trip. If it's within 1 inch of where I aimed at................

Stan
 

griff

Well-Known Member
Stringer,
just a few questions first, how are you applying both accelerator and patch-out.
accelerator will remove the carbon layer and the patch-out will remove the copper, combined together they will create suds which foam in the barrel and speed up the whole process.
The F.class shooters use both and are extremely pleased with the results.There was a new world record set by Boyd Heaton @ 1000yds and he attributed this to the fact he could clean his barrel quickly using both Accelerator and Patch-out,We also have several custom gunsmiths that are using Sharpshootr products exclusively, along with the F class shooters at Border Barrels..
30 rounds should not foul the barrel to the extent that you are describing, so we must be missing something here.
I use a bronze brush to apply the accelerator with only 2-3 strokes down the entire length of the barrel,the brush will score any copper in the barrel and allow the patch-out to work faster. The whole concept of a brushless bore cleaner is obviously to do away with brushing, there is on a website ( can't remember which) a picture of a barrel that has been brushed consistently, the picture itself says everything, so don't wear out your barrel with brush strokes!
Can you tell me where you bought both products?

regards
griff
www.wipeout.org.uk
 

Stringer

Well-Known Member
griff said:
Stringer,
just a few questions first, how are you applying both accelerator and patch-out.

Apply Accelerator 1st then Patch out, have tried with both patches & a couple of strokes of the Brush

accelerator will remove the carbon layer and the patch-out will remove the copper, combined together they will create suds which foam in the barrel and speed up the whole process.

The F.class shooters use both and are extremely pleased with the results.There was a new world record set by Boyd Heaton @ 1000yds and he attributed this to the fact he could clean his barrel quickly using both Accelerator and Patch-out,We also have several custom gunsmiths that are using Sharpshootr products exclusively, along with the F class shooters at Border Barrels..

Not doubting the product - only me!!

30 rounds should not foul the barrel to the extent that you are describing, so we must be missing something here.

The only thing I can think of is that the rifle was described by the dealer an ex demo from a Game fair but was in new condition and did not look as if it had been fired

I use a bronze brush to apply the accelerator with only 2-3 strokes down the entire length of the barrel,the brush will score any copper in the barrel and allow the patch-out to work faster. The whole concept of a brushless bore cleaner is obviously to do away with brushing, there is on a website ( can't remember which) a picture of a barrel that has been brushed consistently, the picture itself says everything, so don't wear out your barrel with brush strokes!
Can you tell me where you bought both products?

/www.continentalshooting.co.uk/

regards
griff
www.wipeout.org.uk
Thanks for the reply Griff see text in red abvove.

I can get the patch totally clean after soaking with product but as per the instructions when i give it a further soaking, to prove it is totally clean, the patch comes out blue again.

are the product safe on a wooden stock? I have tried to make sure none gets onto it but think it may have as stock appears to be getting dull.

I am using a bore guide but inevitably I think some of the prodct may have gotten into the breech area. will this cause any harm

Am I getting hung up on something that is not that important? just want to make`sure i start as I mean to go on and try to keep the gun in decent nick.

Thanks in advance

Stephen
 

griff

Well-Known Member
Stringer,
it won't do any harm in the breech, but prolonged contact with the stock will dull it and in certain circumstances will remove the old shellac finish which is usually on older guns.
Using phosphur bronze brushes will always give you a blue patch,plastic is far better and will give a true indication of wether or not the barrel is clean.
Jim Young fron Continental has used the product for some time,and likes it over and above anything else.I can only think that it was extremely dirty with a lot of copper fouling,once you have it clean it should only be a 10-15 minute clean..

regards
griff
www.wipeout.org.uk
 

griff

Well-Known Member
Stringer,
we have a new batch of Patch-out and Wipe-out coming in from the US, it is a lot stronger than the old product.. Should speed things up considerably..

regards
griff
 

Top