Pay more for FAC to get better service?

[saddler]

And in doing so price some of the poorest shooters out of the game...? Its not the fees we pay thats the problem, its forces dragging their heels and tip toeing around political hot potatoes thats the problem.

43 forces each with their own local priorities, problems and agendas; you may as well have 43 versions of the Firearms Acts, which is what we DO actually have, but shouldn't!!

 

[25 Sharps]

Personally i dont care how long it takes for my renewal, before hand i will stock up on ammunition, dont need or want any more guns or rifles, as long as they give the the paperwork for extensions they can take as long as they like!

Its not rocket science to understand that its going to be a long slog under present conditions so think forward and prepare for it !
Personally i cant see what all the bitching is about!

There’s a surprise Lee.

Sod the club shooters and vermin controllers who get through thousands of rounds so can’t stock up, as long as you’re alright!

 

[25 Sharps]

My fac took 14 weeks all told to land on the door mat last week !

Renewal?

 

[25 Sharps]

Lan

....and what happens when the 12-month paperwork expires?

I see your point re ammunition, sort of.
GREAT for someone shooting a box of 20 per 6 months or so....but I also attend MoD range shoots - using 200+ before the first coffee break is not uncommon.
The total entitlements are not great, and as soon as I run out of primers, what then??

Another more relevant for the forum issue around the delay....I've just been given a new permission to shoot over. Not having an open cert, with this area (had them in the past), I can only legally shoot on said land once the police have checked it and added it to my FAC.
Is that likely to happen while the renewal process is underway? and IF this new 18-month+ turnaround becomes the norm & accepted by a sector of licence holders, then I predict that ALL processes under the edict of said local department will slide to a similar time scale: got an invite to a course, or need a new bit of land adding? Got the chance to travel abroad next summer and need a variation or some small change to the ammunition table - don't worry - we'll have your changes ready for you in time for Christmas, 2023....

The only positive is that this level of service makes Durham hospital now look like a BUPA flagship site!!to

To be fair land doesn’t generally get added to your certificate and if it’s open in one county it’s open in all.

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

There’s a surprise Lee.

Sod the club shooters and vermin controllers who get through thousands of rounds so can’t stock up, as long as you’re alright!

It’s not rocket science to get stocked up is it?

You have to prepare to dig in and get on with it!

You know it’s gonna be a long slog so there’s no excuse for the 3 P’s really is there?!

PI$$ - POOR- PREPARATION

If you’re a pest controller you should be well stocked up anyway because it’s part and parcel of the job, most if not all target shooters are home loaders so therefore should have everything they need by the thousand so really if you’re unprepared because of your renewals on the drag is your own bloody fault!

 

[saddler]

It’s not rocket science to get stocked up is it?

You have to prepare to dig in and get on with it!

You know it’s gonna be a long slog so there’s no excuse for the 3 P’s really is there?!

PI$$ - POOR- PREPARATION

SO - before an 18 month delay, I should have applied for about 5000+ rounds per caliber, just to be sure?
I know exactly how that would have been received

The PI$$ POOR PREPARATION (or PERFORMANCE) is not on the part of the service user/customer
There is a long slog and there IS taking the pi$$

 

[saddler]

Lan

To be fair land doesn’t generally get added to your certificate and if it’s open in one county it’s open in all.

TRUE
But without such an open cert,. due to local interpretations or other factors, then what???
WAIT is what.....with the highly probable chance that the landowner will not see results so will pass the permission to someone who can make better use of it = so loss of a legitimate & legal activity due to short staffing or ????
Could be seen as in infraction of the Human Rights Act....

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

TRUE
But without such an open cert,. due to local interpretations or other factors, then what???
WAIT is what.....with the highly probable chance that the landowner will not see results so will pass the permission to someone who can make better use of it = so loss of a legitimate & legal activity due to short staffing or ????
Could be seen as in infraction of the Human Rights Act....

If you loose ground because you cant to the job down to running out of ammunition thats your own bloody fault for not thinking forward simple as!

Honestly is thinking forward really that hard?

 

[25 Sharps]

It’s not rocket science to get stocked up is it? You have to prepare to dig in and get on with it! You know it’s gonna be a long slog so there’s no excuse for the 3 P’s really is there?! PI$$ - POOR- PREPARATION If you’re a pest controller you should be well stocked up anyway because it’s part and parcel of the job, most if not all target shooters are home loaders so therefore should have everything they need by the thousand so really if you’re unprepared because of your renewals on the drag is your own bloody fault!

As usual Lee you are showing you are absolutely clueless out of your own narrow horizons.

Take my ticket for example, I have a hold of 1500 for .22 LR. On a club shoot I may shoot 3-500 .22 LR, I shoot at 3 club sessions a month. So I can stock up for precisely, 1 month. That is if I don’t hold .22 ammo for pest control. I have 3 firearms that shoot .22 lr, they all like different ammunition.

Pistol wise I have 1000 on my ticket, LBR and underlever chambered in .357. Again 2-300 rounds 3 times a month. Yes it is possible to stock up on reloading consumables but there is a limit of 10kg including primers, if you load say 12 different calibres then that limits how much you can stock up on for each calibre. Also there is a worldwide shortage of primers currently, pistol primers are very difficult to get hold of- how do people stock up?

Pest control wise, the guidance for hold limit for pest control is 600 rimfire. If you shoot 30/40/50 rabbits a week how long is that 600 going to last?

You have absolutely no clue!!

 

[25 Sharps]

If you loose ground because you cant to the job down to running out of ammunition thats your own bloody fault for not thinking forward simple as!

Honestly is thinking forward really that hard?

He’s not saying you lose it because you haven’t got ammunition Lee (you clearly can’t read either) he’s saying you may lose out on new ground if you can’t produce your certificate for the landowner or get the land cleared by the local plod, which is a valid point!

 

[finnbear270]

He's not listening.

 

[IBD]

It needs experienced staff on decent wages who know about guns and ammo.

Not a degree holder who has never shot in their life. That would make it more efficient but I’d happily pay £100/ year for a license

 

[saddler]

If you loose ground because you cant to the job down to running out of ammunition thats your own bloody fault for not thinking forward simple as!

Honestly is thinking forward really that hard?

It seems to be an almost impossible task in Norfolk!!

Some folk seem to have a HUGE problem with simple maths - maybe they were off school that day??

OK Lee. socks off time:
MOST of my ammo slots are around 600-800 per cal., some are closer to 1500. Sounds like a lot?

To someone buying a packet of 20 per year to shoot and handful of deer, it is.
To someone shooting on an MoD range at various targets, it is very easy, as I already posted, to use 150-200 rounds per gun per day (or more): so, the max holding for that cal. may only cover three or four range outings, and with TWO range dates a month, I AM the one who thought ahead, as Home Office guidance allows around 14 weeks max. for the renewal process to take place
(as the ammo slots I have for the smaller allowances would last for TWO MONTHS - the allowance totals for the higher amounts get me to maybe FOUR MONTHS)

How is THIS not "thinking forward", when a 14 week renewal target morphs into an 18 MONTH+ fiasco?
If you have a spare minute, can you can drop my FEO a note asking for my ammo slots to be upped to 7,200 per cal. = tell him it's all Normal for Norfolk - he'll understand

 

[Franchi Matt]

43 forces each with their own local priorities, problems and agendas; you may as well have 43 versions of the Firearms Acts, which is what we DO actually have, but shouldn't!!

My point was I think (correct me if wrong) with the recent shooting, freshly discovered licensing mistakes and potential legislation changes - I think all forces are tip toeing around every aspect of firearms in fear of getting egg on their face.
Just my observation.

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

It seems to be an almost impossible task in Norfolk!!

Some folk seem to have a HUGE problem with simple maths - maybe they were off school that day??

OK Lee. socks off time:
MOST of my ammo slots are around 600-800 per cal., some are closer to 1500. Sounds like a lot?

To someone buying a packet of 20 per year to shoot and handful of deer, it is.
To someone shooting on an MoD range at various targets, it is very easy, as I already posted, to use 150-200 rounds per gun per day (or more): so, the max holding for that cal. may only cover three or four range outings, and with TWO range dates a month, I AM the one who thought ahead, as Home Office guidance allows around 14 weeks max. for the renewal process to take place
(as the ammo slots I have for the smaller allowances would last for TWO MONTHS - the allowance totals for the higher amounts get me to maybe FOUR MONTHS)

How is THIS not "thinking forward", when a 14 week renewal target morphs into an 18 MONTH+ fiasco?
If you have a spare minute, can you can drop my FEO a note asking for my ammo slots to be upped to 7,200 per cal. = tell him it's all Normal for Norfolk - he'll understand

Just an observation but as a target shooter I presume you reload?

do you not stock an almighty heap of bullets, powder etc?

Bullets can be posted expanding and solids so why are you spouting off about 7k allowance’s?

Load to max shoot them out and loaf some more!

As a home loader there should be no excuse

 

[25 Sharps]

Just an observation but as a target shooter I presume you reload?

do you not stock an almighty heap of bullets, powder etc?

Bullets can be posted expanding and solids so why are you spouting off about 7k allowance’s?

Load to max shoot them out and loaf some more!

As a home loader there should be no excuse

You are being selective with your responses, completely ignoring the rimfire shooter!

As for reloading you are ignoring the fact that there is a limit on the explosive material you can hold on your FAC.

10kg of components, say you stock up on primers, 1 gr per primer 15400 primers leaves you 9 kg, say you split that between just 3 calibres.

.280 AI for long range work- 750 rounds / 3kg
6.5 creedmoor- 1050 rounds / 3 kg
.308 - 1050 rounds

Total 2850 rounds

Shoot 3 times a month at 250 round me a session. Renewal takes 6 months, you cannot stockpile enough powder to see you through, you’ll run out in 4!

 

[JTO]

I’d happily pay £100/ year for a license

Sounds like a great way to get rid of other shooters who might compete with you for shooting.

 

[IBD]

Sounds like a great way to get rid of other shooters who might compete with you for shooting.

Hardly Jim,
Most shooters can afford it. If they can’t then I doubt they can afford shotgun cartridges at £400/1000 now or £2 a rifle bullet

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

You are being selective with your responses, completely ignoring the rimfire shooter!

As for reloading you are ignoring the fact that there is a limit on the explosive material you can hold on your FAC.

10kg of components, say you stock up on primers, 1 gr per primer 15400 primers leaves you 9 kg, say you split that between just 3 calibres.

.280 AI for long range work- 750 rounds / 3kg
6.5 creedmoor- 1050 rounds / 3 kg
.308 - 1050 rounds

Total 2850 rounds

Shoot 3 times a month at 250 round me a session. Renewal takes 6 months, you cannot stockpile enough powder to see you through, you’ll run out in 4!

Buy more powder so you dont run out!

Last time i have 22 rimfire which was many many years ago i was down for 5k

 

[Klenchblaize]

Just an observation but as a target shooter I presume you reload?

do you not stock an almighty heap of bullets, powder etc?

Bullets can be posted expanding and solids so why are you spouting off about 7k allowance’s?

Load to max shoot them out and loaf some more!

As a home loader there should be no excuse

Vacancies occasionally arise within a Firearms Licensing Department for replacement FEO’s. Get yourself registered ASAP with the East Anglia Constabulary as you’re certain to tick no less than 90% of the suitability boxes.

K