Pay more for FAC to get better service?
- Thread starter Steve2_1
- Start date
jimmy milnes
Well-Known Member
In theory yes id agree with you, however as time has proved on many occasions in matters such as you suggest, the extra charge gets added but nothing comes to fruition for a better service...
Well the tricky bit is the faster smoother bit. I doubt it would happen. I also feel that this is an obligation forced upon us by the state under the pretext of public safety. If it really was about public safety it should be efficient and at no cost to the end user!
David.
David.
flatliner
Well-Known Member
The PSNI increased the fee a few years ago, with a view to providing a better service. Firearm licencing in Northern Ireland at the minute is in a total state of disarray.
www-bbc-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org
Gun licence backlog declared critical incident - BBC News
A firearms group says the backlog of 3,000 firearms licences is unacceptable.
www-bbc-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org
nun_hunter
Well-Known Member
Paying more and getting a better service aren't even closely linked.
Look at every other monopoly where prices go up and you can't go elsewhere? Train tickets? Car Tax Council Tax?
Look at every other monopoly where prices go up and you can't go elsewhere? Train tickets? Car Tax Council Tax?
long_range_rob
Well-Known Member
Police forces, like the NHS can never have enough funding. If we put more into the licensing it will be subverted to other areas. In every other industry you have a job to do and a budget to do it. If you can’t work within those parameters then you go bust.
I raise you £150!
Spot-on observation and what arises/flows form this form has an awful lot to do with the delays in renewal.
K
saddler
Well-Known Member
A couple of decades back, HM Inspectorate of Constabulary came to the conclusion, having studied the subject in great depth, that the police operated licensing departments should be closed and the work done by the private sector. It never happened.....
To some of the younger ones about - never forget that before the 1968 Act, you bought and renewed your shotgun certificate at the Post Office.
Turn up at the counter, slide your cash over - certificate slid back to you - job done. The only delay being the length of the queue that day.
The present PROBLEM is not any lack of a "better" service - it's the complete lack of ANY harmonisation of the system as it stands.
I put my renewal forms in in May, last year. The FEO home visit was all of 5 weeks ago.
Nobody ever answers the department phone (manned for 2 hours each morning) - and e-mails are replied to "within 7 working days"
Each area will and does have it's own variation of the above issues = and THAT is the problem: all regional forces are enforcing the same statute laws under the same sets of Home Office guidance, yet they ALL vary in one way or the other on how efficiently that process is carried out. Some forces can and do excel at meeting the targets around renewal times.
For "better", how about having the forces that CAN carry out the full and correct renewal process within the normal renewal period (no automatic 8 week extension, no temp. 12 month permit) give some instructions to the departments that seem incapable of coming anywhere close to any realistic targets?
At the present state of affairs, the majority of departments don't need an increased payment for the service they provide to paying customers, they need to be issuing some overdue/late processing fees to their customers = it happens elsewhere, banking, airlines, etc...
Sending more funds to any department that is anything but competent is a total farce & would make zero change to their operating models.
We already have the precedent of cash going sideways in the UK - the Road Fund Licence (Car Tax) being there allegedly to maintain the roads in the UK & nothing else!
To some of the younger ones about - never forget that before the 1968 Act, you bought and renewed your shotgun certificate at the Post Office.
Turn up at the counter, slide your cash over - certificate slid back to you - job done. The only delay being the length of the queue that day.
The present PROBLEM is not any lack of a "better" service - it's the complete lack of ANY harmonisation of the system as it stands.
I put my renewal forms in in May, last year. The FEO home visit was all of 5 weeks ago.
Nobody ever answers the department phone (manned for 2 hours each morning) - and e-mails are replied to "within 7 working days"
Each area will and does have it's own variation of the above issues = and THAT is the problem: all regional forces are enforcing the same statute laws under the same sets of Home Office guidance, yet they ALL vary in one way or the other on how efficiently that process is carried out. Some forces can and do excel at meeting the targets around renewal times.
For "better", how about having the forces that CAN carry out the full and correct renewal process within the normal renewal period (no automatic 8 week extension, no temp. 12 month permit) give some instructions to the departments that seem incapable of coming anywhere close to any realistic targets?
At the present state of affairs, the majority of departments don't need an increased payment for the service they provide to paying customers, they need to be issuing some overdue/late processing fees to their customers = it happens elsewhere, banking, airlines, etc...
Sending more funds to any department that is anything but competent is a total farce & would make zero change to their operating models.
We already have the precedent of cash going sideways in the UK - the Road Fund Licence (Car Tax) being there allegedly to maintain the roads in the UK & nothing else!
Not really. I think the process can be simplified without any effect on public safety which, assuming the same level of resourcing is applied, would lead to faster service. We have the classic problem where more things are added but nothing is ever removed.
One for one's are overly complicated. Provided the sale/purchase is properly tracked I don't see the need for filling in a form every time. Equally calibre groupings would remove the need to process forms every time we wanted to change guns for a calibre that is essentially the same.
So I will cough up more to reflect the real cost, provided the Home Office (?) did their bit. Easy to justify as it is "freeing police time from pointless bureaucracy to focus on areas of risk"
If I ruled the world...
One for one's are overly complicated. Provided the sale/purchase is properly tracked I don't see the need for filling in a form every time. Equally calibre groupings would remove the need to process forms every time we wanted to change guns for a calibre that is essentially the same.
So I will cough up more to reflect the real cost, provided the Home Office (?) did their bit. Easy to justify as it is "freeing police time from pointless bureaucracy to focus on areas of risk"
If I ruled the world...
Len the dog
Well-Known Member
We keep throwing ever increasing sums at the NHS but the service gets worse and worse. In the public sector, money is always seen as a panacea that will fix everything, but almost without exception it just leads to more waste and greater inefficiency. If by paying extra we were to actually get some real improvement right across the 43 forces then in principle I would be more than happy to pay a reasonable increase, however I don't believe this would be the case and I would simply be throwing good money after bad.
For years BASC have been asking for 10 year licences in return for a reasonable increase in fees, I don't believe we're any closer to that now than we were 5 years ago and I think we will see fees go up before there are any real changes to the current system.
For years BASC have been asking for 10 year licences in return for a reasonable increase in fees, I don't believe we're any closer to that now than we were 5 years ago and I think we will see fees go up before there are any real changes to the current system.
Forty odd police forces doing one task, one law, one interpretation. Forty odd different ways to do it, what could possibly go wrong. 
Len the dog
Well-Known Member
Exactly. Imagine owning a business that has 43 branches in the UK and all of them decide to operate to a different system to the rest, managing them overall would be impossible and the business would collapse under a steaming great pile of inefficiency.Forty odd police forces doing one task, one law, one interpretation. Forty odd different ways to do it, what could possibly go wrong.
timbrayford
Well-Known Member
Disagree we need a central govt. agency instead!
There’s a very simple reason why 10-year Certificates will never happen: Everything that informs the decision to grant or renew suggests 5-years is too long.
K
nun_hunter
Well-Known Member
Only difference is that it isn't a business and certainly isn't a service offered to make profit.
A lot of police forces see the FLD as a PITA and a necessary evil so do the absolute bare minimum as they don't fully realise the risk involved to them as a force.
The ones that offer a good/quick service aren't doing it for the "customers" but because doing things efficiently and keeping on top of people and their applications and paperwork means they are effectively managing the risk.
Simple one is if you let certificates expire because as a department you dont process them in a timely fashion it is a massive risk if something goes wrong with that person and their guns/rifles with an expired certificate. Some police forces don't appreciate this reputational risk posed to them (and the actual risk to the public) and so are a bit slack. Others do appreciate it and make sure their processes are as slick and we'll recorded as possible.
There are many things in common!
^ One hymn book, Thousands singing off-key or not at all.Forty odd police forces doing one task, one law, one interpretation. Forty odd different ways to do it, what could possibly go wrong.
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