Pheasant pen size

It comes for BASC I think, the view being that it’s easier to work out how much netting you used on the pen perimeter …… our pen is roughly 380m around - it’s not square and it’s not round, it weaves around trees etc, but suspect it’d be around 8,000m2…..
It's still a defective guideline, because it doesn't work when pens are different sizes and worse still it doesn't work (for a different mathematical reason) if the pens are different shapes either. The best shape to enclose the maximum area for a given length of wire is a circle and the worst a very long and thin rectangle. I shouldn't think anyone uses these shapes, but the maths holds for any variation of shape. For your 380m of fence, you could have enclosed any area between 11490sq.m. and 0sq.m. It is obviously therefore an useless guideline.

We put 450 in and the habitat in there is not too badly degraded by the time they’re out and about….we don’t net the top ( we couldn’t having mature trees in there) so we clip one wing and that hefts them well enough….
I should think the birds were very happy in there.
 
…… useless it may be mathematically, but unless you’re completely clueless, you’re not going to try to fence in a very long narrow pen, but instead aim for a ‘rounded off square or rectangle’.

Without the need for complex measurement it therefore gives a guide based on the amount of materials used - so useful for some.
 
sorry u've lost me tim?

But surely the holes in the net are to big?
Every pen i've seen with harris fencing has been rabbit netted too.
Plus are they not about a tenner a panel 2nd hand even for ruff 1's
When I built this pen :tiphat:

First Pen Project...

Also when a fabricator builds a pen lol


made use of the bits i cut off

 
…… useless it may be mathematically, but unless you’re completely clueless, you’re not going to try to fence in a very long narrow pen, but instead aim for a ‘rounded off square or rectangle’.

Without the need for complex measurement it therefore gives a guide based on the amount of materials used - so useful for some.

When I was a lad 😂😂 we had the benefit of a fantastic organisation ‘The Game Conservancy’ they published a great many books, leaflets, reports etc (long before the internet) and carried out research into diseases etc.
What information, on all aspects of game management, they didn’t make available was not worth knowing.

Willowbank
 
…… useless it may be mathematically, but unless you’re completely clueless, you’re not going to try to fence in a very long narrow pen, but instead aim for a ‘rounded off square or rectangle’.
Indeed, but people are often constrained by the site available. Our pen is in the shape of a fat L. I have seen numerous others in shapes like truncated triangles, fairly pronounced rectangles and the like.
Without the need for complex measurement it therefore gives a guide based on the amount of materials used - so useful for some.
Except that anybody would have carried out the necessary measurements in order to find out the amount of materials they need.
It was always a yard of fence per bird, whatever the doubters say. Perhaps 1000 birds in a 250 X 250 pen might seem rather sparse but we had a lot less disease with those sort of densities.
I'm not doubting the rule of thumb. I just proved that it is wrong. The OP asked a question implying he wanted to know the minimum sensible size.
For one particular size the rule may work, but for every other size it is bound to be wrong. 1000 birds may well have been very happy in a 250x250 pen, but that is not any sort of guidance as to what the maximum sensible density is. Other shoots will have had good results from using fewer or more birds in the same area, and not all have bottomless pockets.I'm not persuaded that your 13 acre pen for 1000 birds isn't unnecessarily large.
Nor is it correct if you decided to have a secondary pen with 500 birds: those birds would have half the amount of space per bird you gave to the others. Had you run a commercial shoot (and I know that a valid answer to that would be that you just wouldn't do it) and wanted to put down 10,000 birds, are you seriously saying you would have used a 1300 acre pen?

All you're saying is that the "doubters" are wrong because in your long experience of putting down birds, you did not put down birds at anything like maximal densities, or that for your particular size of pen it worked fine.
 
Indeed, but people are often constrained by the site available. Our pen is in the shape of a fat L. I have seen numerous others in shapes like truncated triangles, fairly pronounced rectangles and the like.

Except that anybody would have carried out the necessary measurements in order to find out the amount of materials they need.

I'm not doubting the rule of thumb. I just proved that it is wrong. The OP asked a question implying he wanted to know the minimum sensible size.
For one particular size the rule may work, but for every other size it is bound to be wrong. 1000 birds may well have been very happy in a 250x250 pen, but that is not any sort of guidance as to what the maximum sensible density is. Other shoots will have had good results from using fewer or more birds in the same area, and not all have bottomless pockets.I'm not persuaded that your 13 acre pen for 1000 birds isn't unnecessarily large.
Nor is it correct if you decided to have a secondary pen with 500 birds: those birds would have half the amount of space per bird you gave to the others. Had you run a commercial shoot (and I know that a valid answer to that would be that you just wouldn't do it) and wanted to put down 10,000 birds, are you seriously saying you would have used a 1300 acre pen?

All you're saying is that the "doubters" are wrong because in your long experience of putting down birds, you did not put down birds at anything like maximal densities, or that for your particular size of pen it worked fine.


The 1m per bird is just a very basic guide u still require some common sense as well, i'm sure someone else can mind at wot distance they half the meterage rate to 0.5m per bird.
Lets face it if ur on a commercial shoot and u don't know how big ur pen should be for X amount of birds u have got bigger problems, most keepers just make it up with the benefit of experience and trail and error.

For smaller pens/pat time keepers/syndicates the figure is not too far away as a ruff guide

So many other varibles too that will affect the birds aswell as purely pen size, vegetation/ground cover, normal weather, even the ammount of hook billed predators which can seriously stress birds in some circumstances esp with gossy's. How long u keep birds in the pen for

In my area a lot of Sitka Spruce woods and the ammount of pens u see around shoots are just mature SS with almost no groundcover and no sunny areas, a pen like that would need to be larger than a well designed pen with a god mix of sun and low down cover plus roosting trees, a wet area would need a larger pen then a dry area to stop it getting clarted up.

As for shape my old head keeper would never allow u to put any corner sharper than 90 degrees in a pen, he would have kittens if i built a triangle shaped pen.
His theory was if any predators get in they will have a kiling spree in the corner, and i still would never put a 90 degree corner in

Just too many varibles to give a definitive answer


But for smaller sized pens it does give u a half decent ball park figure

Ruger is ur whole pen cover crop?
No roosting trees or open areas?


Just thinking i don't think i've ever had a how big the new pen conversation is with anyone thats used area as the measurement, usually the keeper/shoot captain will say it was X amount of fencing, which still gives u a decent idea of the size/scale of the pen.
Just nice and simple
 
The 1m per bird is just a very basic guide u still require some common sense as well, i'm sure someone else can mind at wot distance they half the meterage rate to 0.5m per bird.
Lets face it if ur on a commercial shoot and u don't know how big ur pen should be for X amount of birds u have got bigger problems, most keepers just make it up with the benefit of experience and trail and error.

For smaller pens/pat time keepers/syndicates the figure is not too far away as a ruff guide

So many other varibles too that will affect the birds aswell as purely pen size, vegetation/ground cover, normal weather, even the ammount of hook billed predators which can seriously stress birds in some circumstances esp with gossy's. How long u keep birds in the pen for

In my area a lot of Sitka Spruce woods and the ammount of pens u see around shoots are just mature SS with almost no groundcover and no sunny areas, a pen like that would need to be larger than a well designed pen with a god mix of sun and low down cover plus roosting trees, a wet area would need a larger pen then a dry area to stop it getting clarted up.

As for shape my old head keeper would never allow u to put any corner sharper than 90 degrees in a pen, he would have kittens if i built a triangle shaped pen.
His theory was if any predators get in they will have a kiling spree in the corner, and i still would never put a 90 degree corner in

Just too many varibles to give a definitive answer


But for smaller sized pens it does give u a half decent ball park figure

Ruger is ur whole pen cover crop?
No roosting trees or open areas?


Just thinking i don't think i've ever had a how big the new pen conversation is with anyone thats used area as the measurement, usually the keeper/shoot captain will say it was X amount of fencing, which still gives u a decent idea of the size/scale of the pen.
Just nice and simple
I agree there are lots of other factors, but even as a rough guide for smaller pens it is useless. If we agreed that it was correct for a 400 bird pen, then it would mean a pen for 800 birds was twice as big as it needs to be and a pen for 200 birds half the size it needs to be.
The only thing it could possibly have any use for is sticking to the shoot budget, it has absolutely no value whatsoever for establishing how big a pen should be for welfare purposes.
 
But a 400m/bird pen is not wot i would call a small pen, thats like fencing of a fitba pitch, and like i said after a certain distance it went down to .5m., most lads i know putting up 400m pens are putting far more than 400 birds in it
Thats why it is not too far away at smaller pens sizes but once u get larger yes u can fit more birds in with no detriment.
Its only there as a ruff guide if u need it


That old rule/guidance has been going around for 30 or 40 odd year, and seemed to have worked fine until now

Is there not more recent guidance in the best practice guides, not that i've read them but something like a 1000 per acre ?
 
Indeed, but people are often constrained by the site available. Our pen is in the shape of a fat L. I have seen numerous others in shapes like truncated triangles, fairly pronounced rectangles and the like.

Having given a rough guide to numbers and the old rule of size, I sincerely hope you do not have 90 Deg corners in your fat L shaped pen.

I'm not doubting the rule of thumb. I just proved that it is wrong. The OP asked a question implying he wanted to know the minimum sensible size.[/QUOTE)

Sorry, but you stick to the vast experience you must have gained over the years a a keeper and call me wrong, but until I retired I had very little disease in my pens. Having reared up to 35000 birds a year from my own laying stock I have sized, built and adapted my pens to suit vastly differing terrains and it's all horses for courses.
Of course you must have the greater experience from the joy it gives you to try and prove others wrong.🤗
 
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There are two 90 angles and one 270 in my pen, which I regret, but I’m not going to demolish 200yards of 12ft high stone wall to avoid it, nor bulldoze the banks and fence off the fields beyond to avoid it.

The vast experience you acquired as a keeper would pretty quickly have informed you that this rule is nonsense. I happily defer, with my 28yrs experience keeping on a small shoot to your superior experience in gamekeeping, however that rule is bull5h1t. If you’ve “sized, build and adapted“ your pens and ”it’s all horses for courses”, those are just excuses for the fact that the rule of 1yd per bird is wrong.

Had you kept and released all 35,000 birds into a single pen, that rule means your release pen alone would have to be 15,800 acres, and each bird gets half an acre. It’s completely absurd. Worse, the number of pheasants alleged to be released in the UK each year would require a single pen larger than the entire land surface of Earth.

Of course you would have had very little disease, because you said you had used for many years a 13 acre release pen for 1000 birds.
 
It was always a yard of fence per bird, whatever the doubters say. Perhaps 1000 birds in a 250 X 250 pen might seem rather sparse but we had a lot less disease with those sort of densities.

So may of the issues shoots have is due to over stocking plain and simple

Put the work in to keep the birds by providing the habitat , food and predator control - dont just keep releasing more
 
GWCT recommend 400 birds to the acre I think

So it will be 1000 per hectare? , i must of got my acre/hectare muddled up, only seen it mentioned in passing

But that is roughly a 4x 100m square pen, so its really more than twice the m/bird ratio, but i'm sure about 200ish m it advised going to 0.5m/bird

Using a distance rather than an area will always change as the fence gets longer, but it is far easier to visualise sides to the pen when u know how long each side or combined sides need to be.

U tell me i need a pen 'X' sq m its hard to visulise that when ur looking at a wood/site

Most of my pens on my old shoot would of been a bit/lot bigger than they needed to be but it always a good thing if u can manage it
 
It was always a yard of fence per bird, whatever the doubters say. Perhaps 1000 birds in a 250 X 250 pen might seem rather sparse but we had a lot less disease with those sort of densities.
But the gamefarms still had emtryl 🤣
 
I moved onto a Cotswold estate in the early 90's and the pens were rubbish, unfortunately I didn't have time to move them. My birds blessed me with Hexameta, the first time I had ever seen it or had experience of it. My vet prescribed Emtryl. I had only ever seen this as an anti Blackhead additive in breeders pellets and thought he was wrong so rang a pal who informed me to my amazement that he was using it for Hexy. It did the job for me but my major job after the season and catching up was to move and enlarge all the pens. We got it again but a lot less fatal in the new larger pens.
 
I moved onto a Cotswold estate in the early 90's and the pens were rubbish, unfortunately I didn't have time to move them. My birds blessed me with Hexameta, the first time I had ever seen it or had experience of it. My vet prescribed Emtryl. I had only ever seen this as an anti Blackhead additive in breeders pellets and thought he was wrong so rang a pal who informed me to my amazement that he was using it for Hexy. It did the job for me but my major job after the season and catching up was to move and enlarge all the pens. We got it again but a lot less fatal in the new larger pens.
I thought inedible once dosed with such ?
 
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