Not saying u don't have a point levi about them swimming if entered correctly, but i've seen an awful lot that won't go near water even in middle of summer, speak to some of the FT boys esp some of the older ones plenty of cracking stories about very tidy well trained dogs failing at the water test at the end of the day. I've heard quite a few stories of them throwing stones in etc to try and entice them in. And i'm not talking about amatuer/novice trainers here some very experienced trainers still have problems with water
It does tend to be more the smooth coated dogs thou, seen plenty sitting shivering too after it, but u could say the same for some of those modern FT bred labs that don't have a real proper coat.
When u start making broad assumptions about breeds u will always get proved wrong by indivdual dogs, but by and large most have some truth in them but with the right handling/training it can be overcome, but u can also sweep water uphill if u try hard enough.
I've been lucky enough to train with some of the top trainers in UK for hpr and shot over some of the best dogs (inc some FTCH) absolutely fantatsic dogs on the moor or a snipe bog, big rashy field for pheasants, but i've also picked up along side them and seen them 'beat' on keepers days (granted they have been trained for FT) just not wot there designed for.
I've heard off some dogs/breeds never miss a bird, yet to see 1 (including my own) but picked birds in areas hpr's that never miss have swept but by same token they have found birds my mutts have missed too
If u scored ur dog out of 10 for different skills etc, swimming obedience, retrieving, even stalking/tracking they're would be very very few categories most hpr's would out score an average lab.
Must admit i've yet to see an hpr that comes near an average decent trained lab, at doing normal shoot work/rough shooting or wildfowling.
Seen plenty of decent hpr's but seen a lot of terrible ones aswell, u can live with a poor lab (even a poor spaniel) but a poor hpr will be a nightmare for 10 years.
For me it is horses for courses, and every dog breed has strengths weaknesses pros and cons but if u don't need a dog to point or range far (hpr's biggest pro's) ur picking a breed for its weaknesses.
With the right training yes it will do wot u want but u will have to put atleast double the effort in take longer to train/mature and the chances are u will end up with just a bang average lab standard, if u put that time and effort into a lab it would be brilliant
Every breed has its place, but i just think hpr's are far over rated (and i'll probably always have 1) but just don't buy into all the BS about them
So, take a look where I live, my dogs certainly don't sit shivering, neither do the GSPs I shot over in Sweden and Norway when it was seriously cold[all smooth coated]
Google loch Watten, and have a look at how broad it is, I've seen five dogs swim that chasing down a winged goose successfully, a lurcher! a Chesapeake and 3 of my own GSPs, Ive seen dozens turn back.
I shoot occasional days in Suffolk, Kent, Hampshire, Notts, Derbyshire, Lincolnshire, etc and on some great shoots, my dogs have NEVER let me down in public and they have wiped the eye of a lot of dogs.
Its strange when I first started to show people my original pointer work, I got comments like, " some special dog that! if you breed from him Ill buy one", those comments are still coming thick and fast, yet every pointer I've owned has been bred differently.
I have seen a lot of poor GSP etc but that's not the breeds fault, its simply poor understanding and training. I've seen good dogs of all breeds especially labs, but as said many times they are born half trained, and can be finished to a good standard easily, but as I said earlier, Pointer take a lot more time and a lot more effort, but the rewards far out way that effort.
One final point about retrieving by dogs, I have had witnessed retreves of the following by one dog, Ducks including divers, Geese, Pigeons, Crows, Rooks, Jays, Magpies, Snipe, Woodcock, Ptatamigan, Grouse, Black Grouse, Capacallie, Pheasants, Partridges Squirrels, Rabbits, Hares, Rats, Coypu, Fox, Badger, Martens, Roe, Stoats, weasals,Polecats, Raccoon, Raccon Dogs, and possibly more a lot of these were alive and kicking and quite a few from water all by a gsp, I would like to see any Lab pick a lot of these! yet most Polish, Czeck, Slovack dogs are expected to retrieve these things!and people over there do not find it unusual.
This is my last beat of the Pointer drum.