Poor grouping on a pre-owned rifle.
- Thread starter phoebus
- Start date
Hang on a moment, you haven't seen the rifle in over 12 months? If so, not your problem!
I hope not. The buyer is being very reasonable and communicating with me via text message.
The annoying thing is, I can't even have the rifle back to tinker with or figure out what's wrong because I gave up my .204 slot as I wasn't using it. I feel that this chap will take it back to the RFD, they'll want to scrap it or remove it from sale etc and then I'll need to put a variation in to get it back and deal with it that way I guess.
There is a small range at the RFD in question so hopefully they see if they can sort it out when the chap takes it back to them. It's a lot of messing around and stress for a £250 (owed to me) gun. The RFD have taken a £100 comission so the buyer is £350 out of pocket.
Hogue over-molded stocks are absolute shite. I imagine it is touching the barre and the flex in the forend with a bipod will be pushing the barrel all over the place, causing inconsistent grouping.
Where this leaves a rifle that won't shoot for toffee after a sale I don't honestly know.
Where this leaves a rifle that won't shoot for toffee after a sale I don't honestly know.
I appreciate that but it's not nice for the buyer on here is it? Trying to be a decent person etc and still get paid for the gun. It all depends how the RFD deals with it when he calls them up I guess.
shakey jake
Well-Known Member
Why not meet up with him, get him to buy the ammo you used and see how it shoots?
If its a stock issue, check the fittings.
Worse case the guns dead.
Legally i guess not your issue but morally?
Could you do a deal with him on the GRS stock, I also have to say £100 commission on a £350 sale seems excessive
The stock is long gone buddy. Sold it to a member on here before taking the gun to the RFD to sell. Yeah I thought it was a bit steep like but just wanted it off my ticket and out the safe.
fallowfellow
Well-Known Member
I wonder if they have tried it with same ammunition or loads as you used?
Copper of a few different brands won’t group in my .243. But it does very well with other lead ones.
Copper of a few different brands won’t group in my .243. But it does very well with other lead ones.
fallowfellow
Well-Known Member
I see a few new comments covering this since I started to write!
Maybe I’ve got this wrong, but you didn’t sell it to the RFD, he sold it on your behalf for a commission, so until it’s sold it’s still your rifle and IMHO you should take responsibility for its performance and the buyers satisfaction.
Secondly, what you sold was not actually what you had originally great accuracy from….you sold an untried and untested rifle in a completely different stock.
I would actually recommend telling the buyer to keep it with my compliments and forego the £250…it might cost him that in time, ammo and fettling to get it to shoot well. I wouldn’t want anyone to think I’d sold them a pup, and would therefore try and do the right thing.
Sorry if thats not helpful or what you want to hear but just my POV.
Secondly, what you sold was not actually what you had originally great accuracy from….you sold an untried and untested rifle in a completely different stock.
I would actually recommend telling the buyer to keep it with my compliments and forego the £250…it might cost him that in time, ammo and fettling to get it to shoot well. I wouldn’t want anyone to think I’d sold them a pup, and would therefore try and do the right thing.
Sorry if thats not helpful or what you want to hear but just my POV.
There's all sorts of things here. If it was, or wasn't "sold" to the RFD and the legal ramifications of who actually had title to the gun after that December 2023 date when it went from your gun cabinet to the RFD's gun cabinet. And who had title (as in ownership) to it even though it was with the RFD and no longer in your gun cabinet. Or if a "one for one" was obtained, or even if not, what was told - "sold" or what else was advised - to the firearms licensing department back in December 2023. I'll not make further comment.
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
Regardless of the ramifications of ownership, liability etc of this rifle, the solution to the poor grouping is clearly its current stock.
The buyer has paid £350. It is a rifle that if properly bedded is known to shoot well.
The new owner can take the existing stock and have it properly bedded. If he is competent, the cost will be some sand paper and if needed bedding materials, or its a job a competent smith can do. Or he spends the money on buying a new stock and having it fitted.
Regardless by the end he will have a good shooting rifle for not silly money.
When you are buying a 2nd hand rifle or shotgun you probably are just relying on what you can see. Even worse, if you are buying at distance you relying on photos. Always factor in some additional remedial action / work if required. You might be lucky and it doesn’t need it. Or you might need to rebuild it completely.
If you want guarantee / warranty then buy new.
The buyer has paid £350. It is a rifle that if properly bedded is known to shoot well.
The new owner can take the existing stock and have it properly bedded. If he is competent, the cost will be some sand paper and if needed bedding materials, or its a job a competent smith can do. Or he spends the money on buying a new stock and having it fitted.
Regardless by the end he will have a good shooting rifle for not silly money.
When you are buying a 2nd hand rifle or shotgun you probably are just relying on what you can see. Even worse, if you are buying at distance you relying on photos. Always factor in some additional remedial action / work if required. You might be lucky and it doesn’t need it. Or you might need to rebuild it completely.
If you want guarantee / warranty then buy new.
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
And from a gunshop point of view.
There is only £100 to be made on the deal. Sold first £350 with £250 due to the original owner. Given the rifle had no sights, no way for the RFD to verify if it could shoot. Indeed cost of ammo plus time would eat hugely into the £100.
Only way an RFD can provide any form of warranty is there enough in the deal to justify doing the work. Putting together a decent quality higher value rifle, with good mounts and scope with a total of say £3,000 then there is enough to put it together shoot it and regulate it etc. many gunsmiths will charge a fee for doing so. In days of old, fitting of optics and setting up a rifle was a gunsmithing job. In many ways it still is unless you really know what you are doing.
There is only £100 to be made on the deal. Sold first £350 with £250 due to the original owner. Given the rifle had no sights, no way for the RFD to verify if it could shoot. Indeed cost of ammo plus time would eat hugely into the £100.
Only way an RFD can provide any form of warranty is there enough in the deal to justify doing the work. Putting together a decent quality higher value rifle, with good mounts and scope with a total of say £3,000 then there is enough to put it together shoot it and regulate it etc. many gunsmiths will charge a fee for doing so. In days of old, fitting of optics and setting up a rifle was a gunsmithing job. In many ways it still is unless you really know what you are doing.
I took a punt on a used .204, the guy I bought it off wasn't impressed, best he could get was two inch groups. He could get very tight groups with other rifles so it wasn't him! For me its moa or less all day long, I guess some rifles suit some more than others?
Reading the thread youre clearly a honest guy trying to politely do the right thing, not everyone would.
The buyer also sounds very reasonable. It does sound like the stock is the issue. Maybe get him to take it off and refit it, houge stocks are renowned for being flexible but it ought to shoot better than that! The least that the rfd could do is bore scope it to check for corrosion occurred while its been with them. They did after all advertise it as 9/10.
If all else fails I'd bite the bullet and give the guy a couple of hundred quid to buy a second hand stock, get your commission back from the rfd if possible. If it shoots straight with a better stock you can have a discussion about splitting the cost?
There's decent people about, and what goes around comes around. Best of luck.
Reading the thread youre clearly a honest guy trying to politely do the right thing, not everyone would.
The buyer also sounds very reasonable. It does sound like the stock is the issue. Maybe get him to take it off and refit it, houge stocks are renowned for being flexible but it ought to shoot better than that! The least that the rfd could do is bore scope it to check for corrosion occurred while its been with them. They did after all advertise it as 9/10.
If all else fails I'd bite the bullet and give the guy a couple of hundred quid to buy a second hand stock, get your commission back from the rfd if possible. If it shoots straight with a better stock you can have a discussion about splitting the cost?
There's decent people about, and what goes around comes around. Best of luck.
Lots be said already, so this is an opinion.
When buying a second hand gun, unseen , un-fired it’s a calculated risk - will it shoot ? Anyone not thinking this is being foolish. Hence you calculated the price, the faff to get it to shoot and the when do you walk away and scrap it.
If you expect one hole groups, you have the gun built from a rifle builder / gunsmith with track record.
Or expect some experimentation and tweaking to get mass produced components to shoot what you want it too.
Unless a guarantee was given it’s sold as seen, nothing stopping the new owner asking to put a bore scope down it or asking a gunsmith to look over it when he was looking to buy it.
I’ve spared you a legal discussion of small claims court as it won’t get to that, and it’s not worth it with the sums mentioned for anyone.
If your moral compass is spinning, offer the new owner some solutions, give them some cash back but this is also where you have had no control over how they shoot it, what they have done to it in their control so a line must be drawn.
This is also the reason I get rid of my guns via the RFD, but sold to them - so it’s not my problem, Yes never get as much as privately and sometimes it’s painful as it’s still good kit but it’s no hassle from that point on.
Hope it gets resolved.
When buying a second hand gun, unseen , un-fired it’s a calculated risk - will it shoot ? Anyone not thinking this is being foolish. Hence you calculated the price, the faff to get it to shoot and the when do you walk away and scrap it.
If you expect one hole groups, you have the gun built from a rifle builder / gunsmith with track record.
Or expect some experimentation and tweaking to get mass produced components to shoot what you want it too.
Unless a guarantee was given it’s sold as seen, nothing stopping the new owner asking to put a bore scope down it or asking a gunsmith to look over it when he was looking to buy it.
I’ve spared you a legal discussion of small claims court as it won’t get to that, and it’s not worth it with the sums mentioned for anyone.
If your moral compass is spinning, offer the new owner some solutions, give them some cash back but this is also where you have had no control over how they shoot it, what they have done to it in their control so a line must be drawn.
This is also the reason I get rid of my guns via the RFD, but sold to them - so it’s not my problem, Yes never get as much as privately and sometimes it’s painful as it’s still good kit but it’s no hassle from that point on.
Hope it gets resolved.
I sorted my Hogue stock, I drilled holes to take a stainless welding rods along the length of the fore end with the flux cleaned away, hung a small weight off the end while in vice, so it was perfectly flat / horizontal, then filled the voids with resin.
Enfieldspares covers the legal ownership issues nicely.
The RFD was a middle man like an auction house, the gun remained yours.
Ultimately you sold a "accurate" rifle as 2 items, that way you probably secured more cash. Legally the buyer has little protection.
The RFD was a middle man like an auction house, the gun remained yours.
Ultimately you sold a "accurate" rifle as 2 items, that way you probably secured more cash. Legally the buyer has little protection.
Similar threads
