Question on chest shots.

[Run Old Stag.]

Out with guest this week, 6.5x55. This guy has shot red, roe and lots of foxes with me, really reliable shot, consistent and very able. Last night, 2 youngish red stags, too close, 30/40 yards. First one facing us, he took it of the shoulder at base of neck, down like a ton of bricks, then up and vanished up hill like nothing wrong with it. Second one stood broadside, bang down and dead. Tonight another stag on edge of trees, 130 yds facing us, really good rest, loads of time, boy didn't have a clue, bang, into front of chest, ran down hill for 20 yds, stood looking real sick and collapsed behind a bank, we went over expecting to see him lying dead, not a sign and not a drop of blood. Dark beat us, will look in a.m.. My lad is now on serious downer, he's used to picking up what he shoots at, rifle bang on.

 

[see it shoot it]

what bullet was he using ?? I had a similar experience when I had a 6.5X55 it didn't seem to put them down even with good solid chest chest,they were Sika but there not bullet proof,i put it doen to the bullet pencilling straight through which whne you look at the design of the bullet there like a spear,it put me right off that calibre.

 

[Gaz]

Could be "hard" ammo not expanding on impact. Had this with a Highland hill stag last season but was lucky to get a second shot a bit later. Found the evidence after gralloch, just a finger hole in the lung.

 

[bewsher500]

diffifult to be sure without seeing angles etc

Base of neck - common issue with poorly place neck shots. misses spine and on a rutting stag it has lots of flesh at the base, goes down initially like a karate chop to the back of the neck, no significant blood loss and not enough shock imparted to the nervous system. gets back up and runs
I much prefer upper neck shots, closer to the bone even if you miss the spine. several examples of dead beast and no spine break,

Front on - if you position it poorly you could in theory bisect the lungs and miss major arteries enough to leave a nasty wound but with not enough blood loss to bleed out internally.
How high or low was the front on shot?
The other aspect is front on at the same level and you risk a "reverse texas heart shot" as the bullet continues into the guts!
downward angled front on, through lower neck and out through mid sternum is a good choice to avoid that, requires elevation though.

don't let it get him down
​I had a calf disappear as a kid from a poorly executed shot. it happens and you learn from it

 

[User00003]

it ain't the calibre that's the problem, it's either just bad luck, bad choice of bullet to speed ratio, or bad shot placement.

I've put deer down 'on the spot' collapse like a bag of potatoes with the .243 ten times in a row, then suddenly have 3 long runners in a row,,some things just can't be explained.

 

[monarman]

should he not have gone after the first stag that he shot instead of shooting another????
Anyway as already said it sounds like the bullet is not performing as it should, seems as though it probably isn't expanding properly .
Try him with a different rifle if possible, might help re assert confidence.

 

[tom308w]

if your close to the beast the speed of the bullet seems to just push them straight through no expansion

 

[mereside]

It does sound like close shots are not expanding, would be interested to know what bullets are used. Hope you find him tomorrow,
I shot a roe buck this weekend at 15 yards it was close and trees where a problem I usually kneck shoot at close range but chest shot this one bullet went in on heart shot it hit a rib on the other side and went straight downwards taking out the breast bone it did a standing gralloch and fell over bullets sometimes do the strangest of things,atb Wayne

 

[Run Old Stag.]

should he not have gone after the first stag that he shot instead of shooting another????
Anyway as already said it sounds like the bullet is not performing as it should, seems as though it probably isn't expanding properly .
Try him with a different rifle if possible, might help re assert confidence.

When the two ran up the hill we wrongly assumed it was a third, lot of cover and VERY quick.

 

[bewsher500]

I have only ever experienced over expansion and lack of exits on very short range shots (standard flat base soft points sub 40-50yds)

​what bullet designs and makes show the opposite?

 

[User00001]

I would say that with the front on beast the bullet has gone between the ribs and the scapula and not entered the chest cavity. I hope you find it but I suspect it will still be alive and require another shot. You used to see this POA recommended quite a lot but I have always been very wary of it.

The shoulder/base of neck shot may have been slightly low/forward?

In my experience, 99% of problems are down to shot placement rather than bullet failure. Before anyone thinks I a trying to be holier than thou, I am the first to admit I have made many bad shots over the years.

 

[Monkey Spanker]

You don't say what type of bullets were used? Contrary to what has already been posted, close shots can lead to over-expansion with bullets such as ballistic tips which results in very little penetration and no exit wound. Low neck shots, especially if side-on, are probably the most likely cause of lost animals. If a beast goes down as described and then runs with a frontal shot, you have probably pushed the bullet between the shoulder and the ribcage. No major organs or blood vessels will be hit. No blood trail likely. Not good, but animal could make a full recovery at this time of year where fly strike and infection is less likely. I'm guessing you used a heavy soft point bullet?
MS

 

[Muir]

The first stag probably got hit the spinal process. Had it happen to a buddy of mine. Went down like a ton of bricks, and suddenly sprang up and ran. JAYB diagnosed the problem for us.~Muir

 

[jamross65]

Before you left after shooting the first stag, what was found at the shot site in the way of hair, blood, bone etc to give you a clue at least as to where the animal was struck?

Do you have access to a tracking dog to follow it in the morning with the scent being at least 12hrs old?

Im not trying to be a smart arse, I'm just wondering if this stag has a chance of being found in fact.

A non fatal or non permanent debilitating neck or spine shot providing there has been some shock to the spine, normally has the animal walking off or trying to run in a very unsteady manner, a bit like being drunk in fact so I would suggest the first stag has not been hit where he aimed.

Even bullets failing to expand properly would surely still eventually cause the animal to die, just not as quickly providing a major organ was hit. At least a few years ago when I was using Sako factory in a 243 on red hinds that's what happened. The pluck in the larder had very small neat holes through it causing very little damage but the beasts still dropped after a few minutes.

 

[mereside]

as Brian says the strike should give a good indication to where it was hit and hopefully you have access to a dog to follow up, good luck wayne

 

[shortshot]

I would say that with the front on beast the bullet has gone between the ribs and the scapula and not entered the chest cavity. I hope you find it but I suspect it will still be alive and require another shot. You used to see this POA recommended quite a lot but I have always been very wary of it.

The shoulder/base of neck shot may have been slightly low/forward?

In my experience, 99% of problems are down to shot placement rather than bullet failure. Before anyone thinks I a trying to be holier than thou, I am the first to admit I have made many bad shots over the years.

My experience would say similar, first one high, clipped spine (unlikely to find him/recover) second 130m stag probably had bullet deflected along ribs and is laid up dislocated smashed shoulder. Frontal chest on big deer unless real close is a shot to avoid because this is likely/possible outcome. Sorry, unfortunate but we learn by our mistakes.