Question on Venison Supply Chain

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Sidewinder

Well-Known Member
Hello All:

I am trying to understand the supply chain and who can sell what to whom. Where get I get more information on this, especially any links to the pertinent laws/regulations on government websites?

For example, you have me the trained hunter, then you have the game dealer, and then my local butcher and finally the consumer.

Can I sell right into the butcher? To the end Customer? And who regulates this and where can more info?

Thank you

Z
 

Ben1987

Well-Known Member
If you've just got your DSC and you're not registered as a food business with the council you can eat it yourself or sell it to a game dealer. If you're registered as a food business then you are able to process the carcass and sell it to the end user which includes butchers. However youre not supposed to sell it to a butcher who would then sell it onto a caterer which can all get a bit confusing. So you could sell it to a pub or a butcher or a shop not a problem because the person who will buy it off them will be consuming it themselves but you can't sell it to a caterer who then goes on to use it for several different soirées. It's all about traceability.
 

deerstalker.308

Well-Known Member
If you've just got your DSC and you're not registered as a food business with the council you can eat it yourself or sell it to a game dealer. If you're registered as a food business then you are able to process the carcass and sell it to the end user which includes butchers. However youre not supposed to sell it to a butcher who would then sell it onto a caterer which can all get a bit confusing. So you could sell it to a pub or a butcher or a shop not a problem because the person who will buy it off them will be consuming it themselves but you can't sell it to a caterer who then goes on to use it for several different soirées. It's all about traceability.
Techincally you have to be registered as a food business with the council to sell it to the game dealer......
 

Ray7756

Well-Known Member
if you register with your local council as a food business, you can process the carcass and sell direct to the public, you must follow all the hygiene rules for preperation and storage, you are only allowe to process deer that you have culled yourself, you can NOT buy carcasses for processing, this would need a game dealers licence ( mega expensive)

Ray
 

Ben1987

Well-Known Member
You don't need to be a food business to sell to a game dealer. Unless you're selling it to them skinned then you are technically processing the meat and then you would need to be registered as a food business. To sell skin on gralloched deer carcasses to a game dealer you're covered by DSC1.
 

deerstalker.308

Well-Known Member
You don't need to be a food business to sell to a game dealer. Unless you're selling it to them skinned then you are technically processing the meat and then you would need to be registered as a food business. To sell skin on gralloched deer carcasses to a game dealer you're covered by DSC1.

Sorry but you are wrong.... there have been numerous threads on here about it over the years.
 

75

Well-Known Member
You don't need to be a food business to sell to a game dealer. Unless you're selling it to them skinned then you are technically processing the meat and then you would need to be registered as a food business. To sell skin on gralloched deer carcasses to a game dealer you're covered by DSC1.
As above, this is incorrect. See the flowchart on page 9 of this doc. Item 3 covers this issue very clearly.

https://www.food.gov.uk/sites/default/files/multimedia/pdfs/guidance/wild-game-guide.pdf
 
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Sidewinder

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the PDF, that is exactly what I was looking for...

So according to number 2 in the flow chart:

"If you are a hunter, estate or shoot that supplies all of your in-fur/in-feather wild game carcases directly to the final consumer or to local retailers that directly supply the final consumer and not to Approved Game Handling Establishments (AGHEs)"....

...."You are NOT subject to the requirements ofthe EU Food Hygiene Regulations. However, you are responsible for supplying safe food under The Food Safety Act 1990 andRegulation 178/2002."


Thus, I can sell or supply my butcher with small quantities of venison in the fur, and he can then sell it on to the end customers...am I reading this correctly?

Thanks
Z




 
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Alantoo

Well-Known Member
Because there are overlapping bits of legislation it is difficult to to find your way through...

If you look at paragraphs 14 and 17 of the Wild Game Guide from the Food Standards Agency it is quite clear, if you sell to anyone you must register as a food business with your Local Authority.

"Primary production for private domestic use 14. If you, either as an individual or as a member of a hunting party orshooting estate, hunt wild game solely for your own private domesticconsumption or to give away to family or friends for their domesticconsumption, the game is regarded as primary production for privatedomestic use. In this situation the game is not subject to any of therequirements of EU food safety legislation. The key point is that the gameis not for sale or supply to anyone else as part of a food businessoperation.




17. However, even though such supply is exempt from the food hygiene rules,under European food law you are operating a food business
1. You willtherefore be required to register with your local authority as a foodbusiness (see paragraph 43) and the game will be subject to thetraceability requirements of Regulation 178/2002 (see paragraphs 45-47).Furthermore, irrespective of whether the individual or estate is a foodbusiness or not, there are duties under Regulation (EC) 178/2002 and theFood Safety Act (Food Safety (NI) Order in Northern Ireland) not to placeunsafe food on the market or to mis-describe food."

https://www.food.gov.uk/sites/default/files/wild-game-guide.pdf

Alan
 
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Sidewinder

Well-Known Member
Thanks Alan very convoluted...you seriously cant make this Stuff up!!....I wonder how many people in the UK died from eating venison before this EU legislation was introduced, and if this number dropped since its introduction.....
 
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75

Well-Known Member
To be honest, Manchester City Council very accommodating when I registered as food business. Couple of then came out for a visit, simply because they were curious about the whole thing and it was a change from inspecting curry houses and pizza takeaways! Cup of tea, but of a chat - job done...
 

Monkey Spanker

Well-Known Member
If you've just got your DSC and you're not registered as a food business with the council you can eat it yourself or sell it to a game dealer. If you're registered as a food business then you are able to process the carcass and sell it to the end user which includes butchers. However youre not supposed to sell it to a butcher who would then sell it onto a caterer which can all get a bit confusing. So you could sell it to a pub or a butcher or a shop not a problem because the person who will buy it off them will be consuming it themselves but you can't sell it to a caterer who then goes on to use it for several different soirées. It's all about traceability.
You don't need to be a food business to sell to a game dealer. Unless you're selling it to them skinned then you are technically processing the meat and then you would need to be registered as a food business. To sell skin on gralloched deer carcasses to a game dealer you're covered by DSC1.
Ben,
please stop trying to advise on this subject as you are clearly clueless and could get somebody into trouble!
You need to go and study the wild game handling guide! You cannot sell to an AGHE unless you are registered as a food business!
Even if you are registered as a food business, you cannot necessarily sell skinned or processed products unless cleared to do so and with a relevant HACCP plan.
MS
 

Silver308

Member
Standard council / government rules apply to this, if your making money, they want to know about it.

Have yourself a great St George's Day.
 

Ben1987

Well-Known Member
Fortunately for me MS I have all the relevant bits of paper and a lovely big HAACP plan all signed off by the council and I am a fully licensed food business so I can sell skinned and processed game meat. I'm also licensed to sell small game. But don't you worry crack on being condescending I really couldn't give two ****s you must obviously be a stalking oracle that knows everything. I'll stick to being clueless. Dick head.
 

deerstalker.308

Well-Known Member
Fortunately for me MS I have all the relevant bits of paper and a lovely big HAACP plan all signed off by the council and I am a fully licensed food business so I can sell skinned and processed game meat. I'm also licensed to sell small game. But don't you worry crack on being condescending I really couldn't give two ****s you must obviously be a stalking oracle that knows everything. I'll stick to being clueless. Dick head.
Wowzers chap, no need for that, come on, the OP asked for advice on the rules, with all the paperwork you have I'm amazed you still felt it appropriate to dish out totally incorrect advice with such conviction if you have all the tickets surely you'd know what was required!
 

sauer

Well-Known Member
Ok
Let's try to diffuse this a bit ...

I understand there is a difference between paperwork in order to be able to sell small game & other game

Plus basic food hygiene courses which can be done online ?

What are the two different paperworks required?
&
Any links to relevant hygiene courses ?

Paul
 

Moray Outfitting

Well-Known Member
This is a (potentially ) hugely useful debate covering a topic that is - as obviously demonstrated here alone - an area of some considerable confusion. None of which is help by spectacularly obscurely structured regulations.

It is a thread - I suggest - that could be hugely helpful to many. Its an open forum and given the topic and its convultions there are going to be divergent views/ interpretations and misunderstandings. Few of us are lawyers and fewer are partaking here as a direct professional advisor. So lee-way should be allowed in terms of what is written - otherwise no one would wish to say anything and the forum gets a bit dull! There's as obvious caveat to everything on a forum like this - no dont have a legal leg to stand upon if you try saying to Mr Judge or even Constable Smith - well I did it because MeggaNinja500 said.... If you want definitive legal advise for your circumstance - go to a professional. Take everything here ( even stuff I say ) under advisement.

I'm loathe to talk directly to fellow members in the open, but think this thread is valuable and wouldn't like to see it become heated. MS - you know your stuff and I'm not going to one second detract from that. But your opening was only likely to offend Ben. QED in Ben's response - but Ben, poor language is never acceptable and doesn't move any debate forward. Above all, it is never appropriate on an open forum. I'm not Admin and I'm not your dad etc - I can understand irritation by both of you at my 'stocking my nose in' - but I do so here simply as an equal forum member expressing a view. There's good 'stuff' to be contributed by both of you - I'd like to see that and not distraction from the heat of the moment issues. :tiphat:
 
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