Raising Awareness??

New Avon Arms


Well-Known Member
A few weeks back a pal of mine told me he was given a haunch of venison
from one of his work colleagues. Instantly suspicious it got me thinking of the whole situation. The lad who gave him the venison only has a .17 for foxes and mainly shoots at night. I don't know for sure that he did shoot it with his .17 or at night but my point is this. Is the law on shooting Deer explained and publicised enough so that people who may just be starting out with shotguns/.22's etc know and learn that there are serious laws to be adhered to when it comes to shooting deer.
I was wondering what anybody's thoughts were and if they think maybe BASC and or the police should be doing more to educate all of its members about the implications of shooting deer.


Distinguished Member
Anybody who applies for and is granted a FAC/SGC should know the law and be aware of what caliber is for what, also that that rifle can only be used for the conditions on the certificate, ie, an issued caliber for fox only (.222 or .223) can not be used for deer unless it's on the certificate and you live in the country that allows the use of .22 centrefire for deer. Forces now, I am lead to believe don't like the use of .17hmr for foxes. Recommendations of a .22 Rimfire or above.

It is also illegal to take venison if you suspect it has been obtained illegally.


Active Member
Hi Mr Fish, last year 4 of the roe deer I culled had shotgun pellets in them. Only one of which was in a bad way the rest seemed to have healed fairly well even with a good dozen or so pellets. Most of the pellets were only just below the skin and were only of small shot size (6s or 7s).
As yet I have not taken any this year with the same problem but there is obviously someone local to me who thinks they can shoot and possibly kill a deer using this method. I have informed the landowner of the problem and I try to be on the land as much as possible but there is only so much I can do to prevent it. I wonder if it is worth mentioning what I have discovered to the police or do you think I am wasting my time?
Also a couple of years back we had a problem with the keeper on the ajoining land who was shooting muntjac and roe with a .22lr whilst out lamping at night, his downfall was that he just left the carcases to rot so was soon found out. MH


Well-Known Member

I don't think its a waste of time when you're trying to do whats right, at least you can sleep at night knowing you're doing all you can. We have a major problem in east Yorkshire with how deer are taken, i reckon over 80% are taken illegally mainly by poachers but i have been on a game shoot where the gamekeeper has briefed us first thing and said if a deer pops up and you want it then shoot it!!


It matters not to certain FAC holders whether shooting deer is on their license or not, its their lack of knowledge of understanding why there are minimum calibres and bullet selection and its impact when these rules are not respected. And as for people knowing that its illegal to accept venison when its known to have come from illegal means will just fall on deaf ears around here! I still get some people (who know absolutely eff all) trying to suggest that deer are a protected species and others who say they are vermin!

some folk just know nowt!!!

old keeper

Well-Known Member
Raising awareness

Mr Fish is right to bring this matter up, sadly however we all know there are those out there who will always flout the law. as a keeper I dont have a problem with the odd rabbit or even a bird being taken for the pot, what really gets me going are the so called shooters who drive round the countryside at night with centrefires, stopping in gateways and shooting at anything the lamp shows up. Not only is this illegal, it is bloody dangerous to those of us who are out at night legimately. I would have no compunction at reporting these people but whether any action would be taken is another matter. I have known of many shooters who stick to the letter of the law losing their permission to shoot, not from their own action but from the irresponsible actions of others. It will always go on but those who love our sport should try to make those who do not shoot responsibly aware of our feelings. On the subject of 17HMR rifles, they are excellent under ideal conditions for small vermin control, I have shot several foxes with mine. but at under 100 yards. Over that I do feel they are hardly man enough to regularly do the job.

2428 miles

Well-Known Member
Just reading about finding pellets in the Roe deer reminded me of a nice Muntjac bull I took last year. He had I good head so I boiled it up. When I was skinning out his head, I took the edge off my knife when I hit a lead pellet between the skull and skin. I found several more imbedded in the skin and furthermore when I finished boiling the skull and pored away the water there was two more in the bottom of the pan.

It enrages me that people a) treat them like vermin b) Try and shoot them with illegally.

I get quite a through flow of deer on my patch so I’m sure it was done on a neighbouring estate who are big into pheasants and don’t much care for anything else.

Very Sad but all I can do is manage my area as best I can and encourage more to live with me!!!



Well-Known Member
HMR for foxes are ok, but in my opinion must be used properly. I have yet to kill a fox with a chest shot, and have now given up totally.

I have found that the bullet punches straight through and the massive over penetration does not stop it

If I hit them in the head or neck, thy fold straight up,

I wil use the HMR if a fox appears at close enough range when I am bunny bashing, but if I go out for fox specifically then its the 243 everytime

My force agrees that rimmys are not suitable for fox, and will grant up to .243 (with a hell of a fuss)


Well-Known Member

I was speek to a guy at work who is quite senioer and sensable. We were discussing deer management then the guy started telling me how he had culled Muntjack with an FAC air rifle. To say the guy went down in my estimation was an understatement!!



Well-Known Member
Only today I was speaking to an old countryman that I have known for years. He has a friend with some ground and that friend wants the deer culled. I got straight on to his case and suggested that I could deal with the deer for him. He said that he would ask the chap and see if he was interested in my offer. If he wasn't then they would just go back to shooting them with shotguns! :eek: I argued until I was blue in the face but my friend still won't have it that its illegal! Hopefully I can get the land and sort this problem out. Some people make me sick with their ignorance of deer! :evil:


Well-Known Member
The trouble is Mr B is that they have done it that way for years. Like trying to get the proverbial to change its spots. The more you protest, the more they will argue.

Arrogant old fools


Well-Known Member
You are right Poddle. The chap wants the deer wiped off the land. Its early days, I hope that I can convince him that managing the population correctly will be the best option. If I can't pursuede him, I imagine some low life will be all too glad to carry out his wishes. :(


Well-Known Member
This is my point exactly chaps, surely BASC should be doing more to raise the profile and importance of correct procedures with Deer management, and this needs to be done across the whole spectrum of shooting. I also think the Police should do more with training their officers in this area aswell, i think i've mentioned this before but the officer who first came to see me about my first FAC application knew as much about deer management as my Mrs ( which is nowt!) Personally i think these officers should be laying down the law but how can they when they don't know it themselves!!


Well-Known Member
i am not sure if BASC can do much more as like the BDS and other organisations , as they seem to be at every game fair trying to educate all types of city and country folk alike, these people in question that shoot deer willy nilly with wot ever they are carrying at the time are not likely to take notice of rules but like you say the police or firearms deprt need to be better educated in what a firearm is and how it is used and for what purpose


Well-Known Member

I agree with all of the points raised on this thread.
As a regular FEO i am always keen to gauge the applicants understanding of what the law says, but we visit FAC holders every 5 years. I think the shooting press is the place to take this.

But we also know that there are guys out there on the ground who know the law but continue to flout it anyway.



Well-Known Member
Did any of you se the article in the Guardian today about deer poaching problems?

Seems to echo many of the issues raised above.. the best one was about the farmers son who attempted to follow some dodgy characters in a pickup truck had his bedroom window shot out with a rifle.. guess what the plod did.. f*ck all no visit just gave him a crime no. !!!!! :evil:
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