red deer and there antlers

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does anyone know the names of the differant stages of antler growth in red deer ,ive heard of royal and imperial but unsure at the number of points required etc , tried to find this out but no luck so far , maybe isnt a scale at all perhaps ???? anyone know ????
 

300wsm

Well-Known Member
From a purist point of view Royal is the only widely defined term for Red deer antlers.

A Royal is a twevle point head, 6 on each side, starting at the corenet there is the brow, bez, trez tines, then 3 points forming a crown, some believe that it is only a Royal if the crown points form a 'cup' that will hold a dram.

I have heard of a 14 pointer being called an Imperial.

Hope this helps.
 

willie_gunn

Well-Known Member
Dazza

Further to 300wsm's excellent reply, I was told that a point on an antler only counts if you can hang a wedding ring from it.

In the West Country, a royal stag is known to have "all his rights and 3 on top", meaning he has brow, bez, trez and the three point cup on each antler.

300wsm - I'd not heard before about the cup only counting if it can hold a dram.....I'll have to test some of the heads I've got in the garage ;)

willie_gunn
 

300wsm

Well-Known Member
From Whitehead's Encyclopedia of Deer ISBN 1 85310 362 4

Royal - A 12 pointed stags head with all its RIGHTS (BROW, BAY and TRAY) and three points on top in the form of a cup or crown, which technically should be large enough to hold a glass of wine, is a true royal.
Occasionally, in the past it would appear that a head of ten points (5+5) was also refered to as a royal, whilst a double royal denoted 20 points and a triple royal 30 points.
The royal tine was also referred to as the fifth point of a deers horn.

Imperial - A name sometimes given to a Red Deer head of 14 points - but there seem to be no justification for it. see also Monarch.

Monarch - A term sometimes used - but without any justification - to describe a 14 pointer

Brow - The lower or first tine above the coronet.

Bay - The second tine of a deer's antler, used mainly for those of the genus Cervus. Also spelt BEAS, BEZ, BIZ-ANTLER.

Tray - The third tine or point of an antler. Also spelt TREY or TREZ
 

sikamalc

Administrator
Site Staff
sikamalc said:
12 a Royal, 14 is Monarch (note Landseers famous Monarch of the Glen is a Royal) 16 is an Imperial.

Taken from the Sikamalc book of 30 years of managing Red Deer in the Highlands of Scotland :lol: ;)
 

weeman

Well-Known Member
Hi mate on the second page of this forum i asked a simular question WANTING TO NO MORE ABOUT ANTLERS . A brilliant chap put a excellent diagram on the page for me too look at i recommend for you to have a look let us no what you think. :)
 

sikamalc

Administrator
Site Staff
Hi Weeman, yes I did see that post, and a very informative and correct post it was too.

There are many old sayings about Red Deer heads, (ie a point on the beam is classed as a point if you can hang a watch chain on it, or wedding ring)
To be a true Royal head (6x6) it must have a perfect crown at the top which will hold an egg or a small whisky glass.

You get to hear all these if you have stalked and managed Red Deer long enough. A Switch head is often referred to as a Switch when it has no tops and all you have are two brow tines. Many are like this and should be culled, but a true Switch to my knowledge is two spikes straight up with nothing on them at all.

Some folk have asked me over the years what do you call a Red Stag over 16 points.

Answer a F////// big stag :lol: :lol:
 

Pete E

Well-Known Member
sikamalc said:
A true Switch to my knowledge is two spikes straight up with nothing on them at all.

Picking up on Malcs point about Switches, these true Switches are often referred to as "murder stags" on account of the antlers penetrating like rapiers when they fight another stag..


Then there are the "Hummels" which are stags with no antlers at all...Apparently these tend to be big bodied as none of the nutrients they eat are diverted for antler growth, hence allowing it to gain more body weight...
 

sikamalc

Administrator
Site Staff
Very True Pete. Hummels are usually very big in body, and tend to have no antlers at all or just bumps/knobs.

About 10 years ago I was managing an estate in Sutherland not to far from where JAYB lives, and I was using the larder of the neighbouring estate............This estate now has a new owner and has placed Moose on it and he would like to see Wolves back as well :rolleyes:

I was called into the larder one day by the head stalker who was a friend of mine to be shown what appeared to be a Hummel. It was holding hinds in the rut and was roaring, it also had a swollen neck and rough mane similar to a Red Stag..................BUT

Guess what....................... it had no testicles, but an udder.

Never seen anything like it before, or since that day. There did not appear to be a traditional name for it (haemophrodite) I know so we called it a

FUMMEL!!
 

Pete E

Well-Known Member
Malc,

That certainly very unusual and something I've not heard of before.

I wonder if its anything like the antlered does you sometimes find in Roe??

Regards,

Pete
 

sikamalc

Administrator
Site Staff
Quite possible Pete, again I have personally never shot one of these Roe but two of my friends have, both near Aberdeen, an area I am unfamilier with.

The Red Deer episode was a one off, and I have seen Hummels and have shot one, but never a beast like the one taken. Funny I have never seen anything like this in Sika. I have no doubt that it possibly might occur, but in all the years I have managed and shot Sika I have never had a real oddity yet.

I had a client take one with me some years back that had 3 antlers. Although on closure inspection it turned out to be the brow tine of an apponent it had been rutting with, which had stuck in its heads and broken off :eek: ouch!!

I would loved to have seen that scrap between the two of them.
 

Trapper

Well-Known Member
Chaps n ladies THINK I HAVE A SOLUTION , dont know about imperials royals or the other stuff Hope that the wine thing works as someone said ! also the egg thing ! also I feel more than a Dramm comming on , ! :eek: The cheese thing well organic Blue and tasty . will consume later with a nice port, n cheesy bikky things ! enjoy
Regards Trapper.
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whoops

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Trapper

Well-Known Member
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an eggs an egg! freerange of course!!

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Which I will be enjoying at leisure soon.! with a nice bottle of port

Trapper
 
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