Red Deer problem

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Morgy

Well-Known Member
A pal of mine has asked us to shoot Red deer which are causing massive damage on his farm, Hinds are well out of season and the vast majority (up to 80 beasts) are obviously hinds.

We would not be shooting them at night, rather hoping that shooting a few in daylight would make them look for pastures new.

I was under the impression that a licence had to be granted by Natural England for their control, but on the other hand as we have written authority from the occupier/owner of the land, and the 1991 Deer Act states:-

Does this mean we can if necessary shoot these problem deer?




[h=3]Exceptions for occupiers etc. of land where deer are.[/h]
(1)​
Subject to subsection (3) below, a person to whom this section applies shall not be guilty of an offence under section 2 above by reason of—

(a)​
the taking or killing of any deer by means of shooting, or

(b)​
the injuring of any deer by means of shooting in an attempt to take or kill it,

on any cultivated land, pasture or enclosed woodland.
(2)​
Subject to subsection (3) below, a person to whom this section applies shall not be guilty of an offence under section 4(2)(a) above by reason of the use, for the purpose of taking or killing any deer on any land, of any smooth-bore gun of not less gauge than 12 bore which is loaded with—

(a)​
a cartridge containing a single non-spherical projectile weighing not less than 22.68 grammes (350 grains); or

(b)​
a cartridge purporting to contain shot each of which is .203 inches (5.16 millimetres) in diameter (that is to say, size AAA).

(3)​
A person to whom this section applies shall not be entitled to rely on the defence provided by subsection (1) or subsection (2) above as respects anything done in relation to any deer on any land unless he shows that—

(a)​
he had reasonable grounds for believing that deer of the same species were causing, or had caused, damage to crops, vegetables, fruit, growing timber or any other form of property on the land;

(b)​
it was likely that further damage would be so caused and any such damage was likely to be serious; and

(c)​
his action was necessary for the purpose of preventing any such damage.

(4)​
The persons to whom this section applies are—

(a)​
the occupier of the land on which the action is taken;

(b)​
any member of the occupier’s household normally resident on the occupier’s land, acting with the written authority of the occupier;

(c)​
any person in the ordinary service of the occupier on the occupier’s land, acting with the written authority of the occupier; and

(d)​
any person having the right to take or kill deer on the land on which the action is taken or any person acting with the written authority of a person having that right.
 

User00003

Well-Known Member
what sort of damage? crops? has/can he prove he has tried by all other means to protect his crops from damage?

 

jack

Well-Known Member
Section 7 of the 1991 deer act allows for culling in the close season, commonly known as 'the farmers' defence'.
As described here:
http://www.thedeerinitiative.co.uk/uploads/guides/91.pdf

The key sentence is the first one which reads, "On any cultivated land, pasture or enclosed woodland, deer may be shot during the close season and a shotgun can be used in certain circumstances[see below] in order to prevent damage."

IE farm land.

It is common sense to be able to protect your crops against marrauding deer or rabbits for that matter.

Natural England licences are issued for unenclosed land, typically parks and moors. But their web site does not make it clear that their juristiction for out of season shooting does not extend to farm land.

And you don't have to have tried all other means of protection, but you need reasonable grounds to do so.

Section 7 of the Deer Act

On any cultivated land, pasture or enclosed woodland, deer may be shot during the close season and a shotgun can be used in certain circumstances[see below] in order to prevent damage. This action may be taken by the occupier of the land in person and with his written permission by: Any member of the occupier’s household normally resident on the land;

Any person in ordinary service of the occupierof the land; Any person having the right to take or kill deer on the land; Any person acting with written authority of a person having that right. Subject to that person having: Reasonable grounds for believing that deer of the same species were causing or had caused damage to crops, vegetables, fruit, growing timber or any other form of property on the land and;believing further damage was likely to be becaused and was likely to be serious; The action was necessary to prevent any such damage.

 
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Morgy

Well-Known Member
Jack

A new piece of the puzzle has come to light.

Some of these deer are alleged to be ear tagged?

Cheers

​Guy
 

Morgy

Well-Known Member
I seem to recall reading somewhere about the need to be careful dealing with ear tagged deer as they may at some point have been injected with drugs for their moving from one place to another, when the deer were thus jabbed they could not enter the food chain.

 

Irish Bob

Well-Known Member
I seem to recall reading somewhere about the need to be careful dealing with ear tagged deer as they may at some point have been injected with drugs for their moving from one place to another, when the deer were thus jabbed they could not enter the food chain. ​

is this anywhere near Macclesfield Forrest?
 

jack

Well-Known Member
Jack

A new piece of the puzzle has come to light.

Some of these deer are alleged to be ear tagged?

Cheers

​Guy

If these are farmed deer which have escaped, shoot them and then invoice the deer farmer for compensation for crop damage.

If the deer are damaging crops then the land owner has every right to protect his crops.

Likewise if a dog attacks sheep, the land owner can shoot the dog to protect his animals, common sense again.
 

prometheus

Well-Known Member
We're reasonable steps taken to control the hinds last season ? Because if they weren't its not reasonable to shoot out of season now.
 

barefootandy

New Member
Having just completed my dsc1 the instructor told us it is legal to shoot deer out of season to prevent crop damage but I believe that they must be shot where they are doing the damage, to prevent further damage, you can't shoot them elsewhere on his land
 

CharlieT

Well-Known Member
Having just completed my dsc1 the instructor told us it is legal to shoot deer out of season to prevent crop damage but I believe that they must be shot where they are doing the damage, to prevent further damage, you can't shoot them elsewhere on his land

Just to set the record straight , deer of the same species as those causing the damage may be shot anywhere on the farm.
 

woodmaster

Well-Known Member
CharlieT. I'm afraid you're wrong. The act specifically states "The killing must take place at the site of the damage and the deer may not be "ambushed" between the site and holding cover."
​This is to ensure you are actually shooting deer while they are causing the damage, and could not be getting another group of deer confused with those causing said damage.
 

Morgy

Well-Known Member
I asked for advice from BASC and was amazed to get a response on Sunday from Matthew Perring confirming these deer can be shot out of season subject to the conditions as set out in my first post.

Jack,

Thanks for your response mate, I have responded to a PM from Ade about the area concerned, it is a considerable distance from Macclesfield, thanks to both of you for the heads up.

Thanks to everyone for their advice.

​Cheers

Guy
 

CharlieT

Well-Known Member
CharlieT. I'm afraid you're wrong. The act specifically states "The killing must take place at the site of the damage and the deer may not be "ambushed" between the site and holding cover."
​This is to ensure you are actually shooting deer while they are causing the damage, and could not be getting another group of deer confused with those causing said damage.

Perhaps you would be kind enough to direct me to which part of section 7 of the deer act states this.

The act makes no reference to ambushing, confusion of groups, where they may be shot or that they must be shot whilst causing damage.
 

JC275

Well-Known Member
Shooting male deer out of season I can just about understand, but shooting females in the summer? Come on, I know a lot of deer killers love to hear the sound of the rifle going off and care for little else (other than banking the venison cheques) but surely even the coldest man on here wouldn't want to kill a hind in July/August?

I'm afraid that I am fast losing faith in almost all aspects of 'countryside management' in this country.
 

prometheus

Well-Known Member
I have some roe in enclosed new plantation at the moment and there is no way I'm going to shoot the Does at this time of year.
 

slack chamber

Well-Known Member
Seems like charlieT has made his mind up and wants to shoot them! I'm with you JC275 can't understand any one asking for the legalities ,it's morally wrong if your a true sportsman
 

CharlieT

Well-Known Member
Shooting male deer out of season I can just about understand, but shooting females in the summer? Come on, I know a lot of deer killers love to hear the sound of the rifle going off and care for little else (other than banking the venison cheques) but surely even the coldest man on here wouldn't want to kill a hind in July/August?

I'm afraid that I am fast losing faith in almost all aspects of 'countryside management' in this country.

Quite agree, I would rather do it in May/June when, in the odd year, they decimate my mowing grass.
 
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