Rediscovered joys of owning a .410

landkeeper

Well-Known Member
Very handy for when you need to finish a fox off when lamping or as a close range dispatch weapon, I sometimes wonder if it would be worth while picking up some solid slugs for dispatch work, I use 20g slugs at the minute for large farm animals but I recon .410 slugs would do the job ?
.455 webley
 

Triggermortis

Well-Known Member
Exactly as VSS says plus when out foxing, climbing fences or jumping ditches the .410 was £150 not the price of my foxing rifle or beretta 20g so if I do slip in a ditch assuming I suffer no injury, financially if a damaged gun was the result it wouldn’t be the end of the world ?
 

The fourth Horseman

Well-Known Member
I understand that aspect of them , but i was really commenting on the driven bird scenario
It may probably surprise most folk but I would bet that most gamebirds shot are no more than 30yds away. 100ft is a high bird on most shoots and perfectly killable by a good shot with a .410. The fashion now seems to be maximum height and big heavy cartridges, the owner of a shoot I used to keeper was telling me only last week that on some of the drives now the birds are a minimum of 70 metres up {technically recorded}. This is where in my opinion shooting is going wrong. I use a 28 bore, well choked and the pattern is as tight as a Nun's .. but I don't take anything over 35 yds and if you are on they are dead.
I have seen people using a pair of 410's on a medium height, shoot kill pheasants consistently, and in my youth saw someone shot with a 410 whilst rabbiting around corn, he did not survive and it was not point blank. I used to shoot bolted rabbits one after another with my Webley bolt action and only last year was breaking clays with one on a mixed calibre, fun, clay day.
In conclusion a 410 in the right hands is capable of shooting everything at moderate ranges if used sensibly.
 

countrryboy

Well-Known Member
Do 410's not have aterrible pattern.

I know a couple of folk that shoot with 28G, which is meant to be a far better patterning gun than the 410. And similar wieght shot load
Seen good guns kill some good birds with 28ga
 

Colonel

Well-Known Member
I have used my O/U 410 on pheasant shoots without problems. I used my O/U 410 on high pheasant clay stand and shot 8/10 and I brought a very nice Remington 1100 skeet gun in 410 last year and my best so far is 19 out of 25 on American skeet. I forgot to say I reload 410
 

Sonicdmb73

Well-Known Member
I must say I found the Shooting Times article very biased.
It was not in my opinion a fair test of the 410.
Setting off with the guys having not shot 410’s and iirc borrowed gun/s. How on earth is that supposed to be an objective test?
They are not the gun for some shooting. But I find my little double side by side hammer gun. Very pleasant to shoot and picking my shots appropriately does the job.
We used them all the time for bolting rabbits in my teens. They were ideal for the job.
Like all the other guns in my cabinet it has its purpose. Like the Hatsan that will take 3” steel or the 270 over the 22lr.
Like any other tool it works best when it fits the job.
I agree with the earlier comment about sensible shooting, something lacking at times.
I was fortunate enough to have a mentor in one of my fathers friends. I got taught to make sure it was safe first. The second was make sure it was within both mine and the guns capabilities. Cartridges were expensive you didn’t waste them.
 

Heym SR20

Well-Known Member
Thanks to this thread, I took my 410 down to Braidwood clay ground on Tuesday to clear my head. On the driven grouse butt I was shooting a fair number of clays with it. Even got a reasonable percentage on the tall driven phaesant. But no fuss, recoil or noise compared to my 12 side by side. I didn't get that many shots with it, as everybody else was wanting a go!
 

Chriscotter

Well-Known Member
A mate of mine (Les Taylor) won the world championships in 2010 with a eell .410 what that bloke could do with a .410 was truly a joy to behold. I spent many days watching him take 45/50yd early season pheasant with 21g of well placed fives. He would take behind what his neighbouring guns missed at ranges I would question with the 20b. Never underestimate any weapon in the hands of a serious shot.
 

gonzo

Well-Known Member
Out of interest, if using a shotgun with slug for HD, how do you deal with the licencing side?

I'm assuming an unmodified section 2 SG here.
I would expext that the loaded slug shells would need to live on an FAC. But the run still being a section 2, would stay on the SGC ??

I've only dealt with section 1 shotguns when it comes to slug.
 

Scapegoat

Well-Known Member
The thing i have to ask is why take a .410 to do what a 20 or 12 will do far easier and better if its not for bragging rights then what is it ?
Same argument we have seen here multiple times with rifle calibres too why use a may do option when a does do one is available
Bragging rights? Yes, possibly, but there's a different perspective at the other end of the scale. Someone once came into a shop I worked in and asked for a sleeve of 34 g 5's, Dark Storm or some other such wunderschell. In conversation I asked if he was planning a day on high pheasants. No, was the reply, partridge on an estate I knew reasonably well, with nothing much by way of height or contour to make the birds so challenging that you needed anything at the top end of the performance scale. He told me he was pretty much a novice, and needed the extra shot and ooomph to make up for the fact he couldn't shoot very well.

I bit my tongue, and simply sold him the shells. However, if anyone turned up at my shoot with 34 gramme 5's Id have more to say. There's a fine line between shooting decent sporting birds with a suitable shell in order to kill cleanly and blasting the things out of the sky in a cloud of feathers and snot.

So, yes, I can and regularly do kill cleanly with a 3 inch magnum .410 loaded with 18 or 19g of 5's or 6's. I make no apology that I enjoy the extra skill required to do so, but it's a hard earned skill over several decades of clay and game shooting. The birds on our shoot aren't particularly high or challenging, so the smaller gauge makes the ay a bit more sporting. On pheasants or later season partridge I use a 20 bore with 25gramme 6's. We're shooting sustainabe numbers for the table, not culling.
 

Cranhill

Well-Known Member
In the 70’s I shot a lot of skeet, every Saturday, all day. The guys with me shot with Miroku’s, Shadow’s and I used L/H Remington 1100. One Saturday morning a country gent turns up in old van with a spaniel at his heels at the practice ground.

Asked if he could have go, no problem we said.

He then watched us finish our round then joined us for the next round.

He got his shotgun out the slip, it was db s/s 410, he didn’t shoot the best round that day but I think was no2 or no3 at best.
 

Dalua

Well-Known Member
A mate of mine (Les Taylor) won the world championships in 2010 with a eell .410 what that bloke could do with a .410 was truly a joy to behold. I spent many days watching him take 45/50yd early season pheasant with 21g of well placed fives. He would take behind what his neighbouring guns missed at ranges I would question with the 20b. Never underestimate any weapon in the hands of a serious shot.
One has to admire such skill, and I guess he'd have patterned that small charge with the large shot to check it was performing at those (to my mind) very long ranges.
21g is more or less a 20bore load, though - and I would still pick 7s or 6s with such a light charge if I were going to shoot game with it.

I like 21g of 7.5shot in my 12bore for clays.
 

Triggermortis

Well-Known Member
Out of interest, if using a shotgun with slug for HD, how do you deal with the licencing side?

I'm assuming an unmodified section 2 SG here.
I would expext that the loaded slug shells would need to live on an FAC. But the run still being a section 2, would stay on the SGC ??

I've only dealt with section 1 shotguns when it comes to slug.
I have a hatsan 20g 7 shot on my FAC, it lists solid slugs for boar and humane dispatch and is conditioned for clay shooting and AOLQ (with normal ammo )
With winchester X rifled 3/4oz slugs at 60m using the bead sight it groups as well as any 22lr can.
 

Scapegoat

Well-Known Member
One has to admire such skill, and I guess he'd have patterned that small charge with the large shot to check it was performing at those (to my mind) very long ranges.
21g is more or less a 20bore load, though - and I would still pick 7s or 6s with such a light charge if I were going to shoot game with it.

I like 21g of 7.5shot in my 12bore for clays.
Here's Les on his homeloads and a pattern testing session......
 

gonzo

Well-Known Member
I have a hatsan 20g 7 shot on my FAC, it lists solid slugs for boar and humane dispatch and is conditioned for clay shooting and AOLQ (with normal ammo )
With winchester X rifled 3/4oz slugs at 60m using the bead sight it groups as well as any 22lr can.
In the case of a sect1 shotgun that sounds normal.
But in the case of a section 2 gun, there are not limitations of the use, so that automatically includes HD.
But the slugs are a section 1 item. So you would need to have a slot for the ammo only on your FAC (assuming you have one). Then using section 1 ammo in a section 2 gun.....
 

Dalua

Well-Known Member
Here's Les on his homeloads and a pattern testing session......
This seems to suggest that he likes to use 19g of 6s through a full choke at 30yds or less - which seems sensible for a very good shot, which this chap clearly is.
Unless I've misunderstood, though, he didn't seem too keen on the idea of 5s, or ranges further than 30yds, let alone 50yds?

Even a very good shooter needs a good, even killing pattern - i.e. one with both enough and sufficiently-energetic (= sufficiently large) shot distributed across it so as to avoid areas where a bird in the pattern would fail to get three or so decent hits.
Without that, even the best shot cannot avoid pricking: and I'd dispute that birds pricked in that way would always be obvious, as they suggest who say that 'it is either kill or miss'.
 

Scapegoat

Well-Known Member
This seems to suggest that he likes to use 19g of 6s through a full choke at 30yds or less - which seems sensible for a very good shot, which this chap clearly is.
Unless I've misunderstood, though, he didn't seem too keen on the idea of 5s, or ranges further than 30yds, let alone 50yds?

Even a very good shooter needs a good, even killing pattern - i.e. one with both enough and sufficiently-energetic (= sufficiently large) shot distributed across it so as to avoid areas where a bird in the pattern would fail to get three or so decent hits.
Without that, even the best shot cannot avoid pricking: and I'd dispute that birds pricked in that way would always be obvious, as they suggest who say that 'it is either kill or miss'.
Which is exactly what I've been saying........that a .410 with the right load, with full regard to its limitations, and your own, is perfectly capable of killing driven game cleanly and competently. The Shooting Times article is written by someone who doesn't use a .410 on clays or game, shoots at one or two walked up pheasants, and concludes that the calibre "has no place in the field." I occasionally shoot walked up pheasant. When I do I take a 12 with me and use 5's through reasonably tight chokes. The birds are going away, and presenting the toughest feathers to the shot. There are no vital organs in a pheasant's arse!

However, when I'm shooting at driven ppartridge I'm using a load that will place plenty of hard hitting pellets in the breast head and neck of any bird I shoot. If anyone wants to visit our shoot and get the birds to fly more than 90 feet in the air, they would be very much welcome!
 

Dalua

Well-Known Member
Which is exactly what I've been saying........that a .410 with the right load, with full regard to its limitations, and your own, is perfectly capable of killing driven game cleanly and competently.
Quite. I was trying to draw attention to exactly those points.
Chris Cotter suggested in his post that a Les (this same Les, I think) was using 21g of 5s at 45-50yd pheasants - but if I've correctly understood the video, he didn't seem impressed with such a load at that sort of range?

For 30yd partridges I'd still pick 7s though, I think.
 

Scapegoat

Well-Known Member
Quite. I was trying to draw attention to exactly those points.
Chris Cotter suggested in his post that a Les (this same Les, I think) was using 21g of 5s at 45-50yd pheasants - but if I've correctly understood the video, he didn't seem impressed with such a load at that sort of range?

For 30yd partridges I'd still pick 7s though, I think.
Thing is, folk get a bit "enthusiastic" when describing the distance to a bird, and are generally a bit hit and miss at judging distance to start with. A bird in the air with no reference points other than say, knowing that your neighbour is no more than 40 yards away and that the bird flew between them and your peg, is a starter for ten. Unless it's astronomically high, you can see it probably isn't higher than the 90 foot tower at your local clay ground, but without those terms of reference, it's easy to overestimate range. Add in a bit of misty-eyed enthusiasm, and I can understand a bit of unintended exaggeration.

An example. On the opening day of last season I shot a partridge out in front. The bird was quartering from my left, across the ground in front of my peg and heading for the right hand corner of the field. It was reasonably high, but no higher than the oak tree in front of me. Halfway between me and the cover strip it had lifted from, which was 40 yards away, I folded it. It didn't even flap, but its momentum carried it a good few yards to drop in the stubble. By my reckoning it was at most 25 yards away when I hit it, yet the guy flagging the stop at the end of the cover was convinced it was 40 yards. It was only 35 strides to where it landed.
 

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