Remington 700 Barrel Life / Throat Erosion / Fire Cracking

[evetseel]

Check out these photos of my R700 .308 Win. it's a 5R 24" barrel and has roughly a 600 round count on it. I'm shooting 175gr SMK at 2600 fps. ITs been broken in steadily and cleaned methodically after each outing. I'm mag feeding so CBO of my loads is 2.210 (0.137'' off the lands)

Please let me know your thoughts on the level of wear and what you think has caused it. I assume fire cracking is prevalent in the throat but looking at the bore scope pics, the entrance of the lands are still relatively free of excessive erosion.

I'm rarely shooting sub 500m with this rifle. How should it be shooting? well? poor?

I'll reply with how well its shooting in an update later.

 

[MarinePMI]

You do realize that a .308 has roughly a 5000 round barrel life for what most consider match accuracy?

I'd suggest you quit obsessing with what it looks like, and just continue shoting it. 600rds is barely broken in for a .308 IME....

 

[Border]

I think bore scopes have given many rifle owners sleepless nights. A barrel is a consumable component and will wear out from shooting, dodgy cleaning practices or leaving a moderator on.

 

[User00040]

I'm shooting 175gr SMK at 2600 fps.

I'm rarely shooting sub 500m with this rifle.

Those two don't really square with each other, as the reason to shoot those bullets is 1,000 yard + targets.

I was in the same boat as you and it forced my hand to sell the .308

A lot of bullet and powder to be burning for that, plus recoil starts to mount up.

But as @MarinePMI says, for a .308 that round count is nothing.

Waits for @Muir to say 'clean less, shoot more, bin borescope!'

 

[Bowland blades]

Don't know how well its shooting frankly seen horrible erosion in rifles that where still holding great accuracy and seen barrels that looked not that bad that wouldn't shoot .
Round counts are subjective to many things . Cadence of fire , powder used double base powders are a bit wick on barrels , cleaning techniques and frequency , tooling marks from day one the list is long

 

[Grandhubert]

I think the rifle shoots fine, I also think that those are chatter from the rifling button and not fire cracking.

 

[RCS Deer Management]

Those two don't really square with each other, as the reason to shoot those bullets is 1,000 yard + targets.

I was in the same boat as you and it forced my hand to sell the .308

A lot of bullet and powder to be burning for that, plus recoil starts to mount up.

But as @MarinePMI says, for a .308 that round count is nothing.

Waits for @Muir to say 'clean less, shoot more, bin borescope!'

I think you mis read his post. He said that he is rarely shooting SUB 500m

 

[1894]

I’m sure my 1957 BRNO looks nearly as bad and is very accurate indeed but that is pretty shocking. I note the lands are untouched

 

[Steff]

Check out these photos of my R700 .308 Win. it's a 5R 24" barrel and has roughly a 600 round count on it. I'm shooting 175gr SMK at 2600 fps. ITs been broken in steadily and cleaned methodically after each outing. I'm mag feeding so CBO of my loads is 2.210 (0.137'' off the lands)

Please let me know your thoughts on the level of wear and what you think has caused it. I assume fire cracking is prevalent in the throat but looking at the bore scope pics, the entrance of the lands are still relatively free of excessive erosion.

I'm rarely shooting sub 500m with this rifle. How should it be shooting? well? poor?

I'll reply with how well its shooting in an update later.

Your photos don't really show the typical picture of fire cracking, which I also woudn't expect on a .308 after 500 rounds. What I do recognize are the rough tool marks that are typical for Remington barrels. These tool marks are indeed now exaggerated by erosion.

 

[Edinburgh Rifles]

Your photos don't really show the typical picture of fire cracking, which I also woudn't expect on a .308 after 500 rounds. What I do recognize are the rough tool marks that are typical for Remington barrels. These tool marks are indeed now exaggerated by erosion.

This^
Standard Remington

If it shoots stop scoping it

 

[rem284]

I have had several 700's. The last 270 one would shoot 1/2 moa. After several years of hard use and annual inspections reports started to say "barrel showing signs of wear". These reports over the last few years indicated more signs of wear. However it still shot well. It was perhaps 4 years after the 1st bad report that it finally wouldn't shoot and the best I could get was 2.5 moa.

Likewise I was using an old sako 75 in 270. The same reports came back but still would get .5 moa. Unfortunately the decision was made to get rid of it. I now use a new 85 that achieves 1 moa. As they say "proof is in the pudding".

 

[paul o']

Sell the scope and relax , Leave the worries for later when it stops printing in the same spot . or sell it off cheap on here thinking your getting a good deal for a shot out rifle !
I'll Start £100 for the action and stock

 

[User00040]

I have had several 700's. The last 270 one would shoot 1/2 moa. After several years of hard use and annual inspections reports started to say "barrel showing signs of wear". These reports over the last few years indicated more signs of wear. However it still shot well. It was perhaps 4 years after the 1st bad report that it finally wouldn't shoot and the best I could get was 2.5 moa.

Likewise I was using an old sako 75 in 270. The same reports came back but still would get .5 moa. Unfortunately the decision was made to get rid of it. I now use a new 85 that achieves 1 moa. As they say "proof is in the pudding".

Time for a T3

 

[Heym SR20]

Most rifles shot well even if pretty corroded / pitted. Well is an arbitrary term. Perhaps not well enough for 1,000 yds, but at 100 more than good enough.

My understanding is it’s heat and gas erosion that are bid killers of barrels. When you squeeze that trigger you are sending a blast of very hot gas and burning powder down the barrel - a bit like a plasma cutter. If your barrel is cold, most of that heat will be adsorbed, if your barrel is red hot after firing 10 quick shots then effect will be more pronounced.

Add in a smaller bore and larger overbore cartridge, the effect is even greater.

And Remington barrels are built to a price. If you think a lot of Remington’s retail at c$500 in the US (if not less), wholesale will be c$300 so in practice there is perhaps $100 in that barrel. It will be contoured, rifled, chambered, threaded etc.

What it will not have is the work in polishing up the insides and removing all the tool marks, like you will get on a custom barrel retailing at several hundred $ before fitting.

I use $ as UK vastly inflates the pricing.

I am not sure how Remington makes their barrels.

Sako / Tikka make great story out of hammer forging barrels. Take a hardened steel mandrel, then a steel tube and hammer it around the mandrel. The steel is worked and smoothed around the mandrel, probably resulting in a smoother barrel. But you pay more.

Does this result in a more accurate rifle - possibly, possibly not. Certainly Remington 700’s do shoot and do shoot very well. But often need a bit of finishing and fettling. But then you are typically paying 1/3 of the price compared to a Sako.

 

[Selous]

so in practice there is perhaps $100 in that barrel.

I think you are probably being generous at $100 unfortunately!!

 

[NP435]

"How well should it be shooting" The question is how well was it shooting to begin with. From what is shown you do a great job of cleaning. Unless the groups are massively bigger or you see keyholes don't worry be happy and shoot. Fire cracks happen fact of life with any barrel and cartridge.

 

[rem284]

Time for a T3

Nnoo

 

[Scapegoat]

This is the trouble with "gadgets we didn't know we needed" . I owned a Remington 700 barrel in .243 from 2006 to the end of last year. It was a superbly accurate rifle, printing singe hole groups and accounting for a large number of varmints and critters. It didn't shoot anything over 85or 90 grain with any accuracy (100 grain struggled to group inside an inch at 100 yards) so it spent its life shooting 58gr or 75gr v-max. When they started to open up (ie more than half an inch from a good rested shot) A bore scope showed the last few inches were corroded. So I had it shortened and re-crowned. That helped a bit, but over the next year it started to open up again. Realising it had reached the end of its useful life it went to have a new barrel. Another bore scope showed it was badly fire-cracked about a third of its length and had a significant level of copper fouling. So it was scrap. Obviously. Except it was still shooting MOA or better at 100 yards.

My point? A rifle shooting MOA or better is perfectly acceptable according to industry standards, and will knock down deer at sensible ranges all day long. My personal quest, nay, mania for printing single hole groups is what drove me to spend the money on a new barrel. It would still have been perfectly good for stalking or foxing.

The real test is whether the rifle still does what you bought it for. When it stops doing that it doesn't matter what it looks like inside, it's time to get rid.

 

[evetseel]

By way of follow up, from my OP: I had two experienced smiths check out the photos of the barrel. They both say machining marks. one said, that unless I was shooting extremely hot loads, with a high cadence, its unlikely to see fire cracking on a .308, certainly not with this few a round count and certainly not with my load.

Good enough for me, as is the accuracy for now. I'm achieving MOA at 600 yds, so until that changes, which I'm doubting it will for 2-3k firings, i will stop obsessing.

Thanks for all your responses

Safe shooting!

 

[Foxyboy43]

The moral of this story is unless there is a sudden problem “don’t look Ethel”!
As an aside and IMHO flexible cameras should be the preserve of gentle(please god)men in white coats - I hope you never have need of them but if you do, and in the spirit of friendship so often proffered on SD, a tip or two just for you:-
Should it be an oral examination i.e. throat be certain you have the absolutely first appointment that morning. If you are second or after and the preceding patient looks like Tom the cat out of Tom and Jerry cartoons just after he has sat on a very sharp tack, immediately feign illness and insist on another appointment - again absolutely the first morning appointment. Should the examination unfortunately be “further south”:-
a. insist on a mild sedative;
b. remember to smile throughout (keeps the chappie on the blunt end happy, slightly puzzled but happy); and
c. do not worry about that strange tickling in the back of your throat unless a very strange light suddenly appears in one eye (yours not the chappie on the blunt end - by now he will already have a strange light in both eyes because of your smiling)!
Interesting thread though, thanks. Now where was I??