Rethink on Accuracy and Rifles

[Dalua]

Time is never wasted on the range.

From observation, a lot of time on the range actually is wasted (by me as well, I suspect) in shooting off a solid rest while sitting a bench to test various hand-loads for unnecessarily teeny-tiny groups.

'Wasted' might be a bit harsh - but once it shoots 1" or so at 100yds, better results are likely to be obtained in the field by leaving the bench, the rest and the chair and practicing seriously in field positions, and at ranges out to 50-100yds further than you'd think of shooting an uninjured deer.

 

[TOMMO.B]

From observation, a lot of time on the range actually is wasted (by me as well, I suspect) in shooting off a solid rest while sitting a bench to test various hand-loads for unnecessarily teeny-tiny groups.

'Wasted' might be a bit harsh - but once it shoots 1" or so at 100yds, better results are likely to be obtained in the field by leaving the bench, the rest and the chair and practising seriously in field positions, and at ranges out to 50-100yds further than you'd think of shooting an uninjured deer.

I agree. I thought this was a stalking site. But i feel there is many a arm chair stalkers here. Who only ever shoot at a range due to maybe having no stalking or whatever. Each to there own.

 

[User00033]

In your hunting community I found none of the endless debates whether a Fallow or Red will be too large for this or that bullet. Nice to get some common sense on this forum!

Aye, Eric, not much of that kind of talk here. We know what kills deer. Bullets. In the right place. Its not like we're trying to shoot them in the eye, is it.

Blighty these days? Who'd have thought it, there's a whole industry in agonising over calibres and accuracy eh? And for foxes too it seems. All this talk of foxing with 6.5mm, 7mm, .30 cals makes me wonder if the darn things wear body armour and have supercanine respawning powers. Zombie foxes maybe. Foxes the size of Shetland ponies perhaps.

 

[JTO]

i feel there is many a arm chair stalkers here. Who only ever shoot at a range due to maybe having no stalking or whatever. Each to there own.

There appears to be a few people on SD who do 3-4 paid stalks a year to have good reason to keep their weapons at home. Are you saying they should not practice on ranges? Most people that I see on ranges, are shooting prone with Harris-type bipods, not on seats or benches.

 

[mchughcb]

Me as well, SAKO 85 from new, after 18 months of trying everything have had to bite the bullet and had it rebarrelled with a Krieger varmint barrel.Time on the range is never wasted, it establishes a base line of the rifle and the shooter's capabilities in what should be optimum conditions. Anyone who does not develop consistency on the the range is setting themselves up for problems in the field.

Sorry to hear that. I would of expected the sako to perform without a rebarrel.

 

[TOMMO.B]

There appears to be a few people on SD who do 3-4 paid stalks a year to have good reason to keep their weapons at home. Are you saying they should not practice on ranges? Most people that I see on ranges, are shooting prone with Harris-type bipods, not on seats or benches.

Not at all. if thats what is required for them then great. I would never belittle any one that shoots, after all we all need to stick together. But when some one who only shoots at ranges tells you how to shoot deer. and you must shoot wee groups. Then maybe you can see my point.

 

[User00033]

I was always under the impression that the sport was in the stalking not the shot which should be more or less a foregone conclusion and somewhat of an anti climax, more and more seem to be more interested in shooting rather than the stalking would be snipers with all the latest technology to enable them to take longer and longer shots ,nothing wrong with that in itself but its not stalking.

This, Mr Trotter, is the very essence of what's so strange and frustrating (but sometimes quite amusing) about these endless debates.

The hunt is all about the hunting. Being out there, pitting your wits, often uncomfortable. Prepared to accept disappointment, to go home empty handed but all the better for it. Its not a science. Its a sport. And whilst a bit of science at home in the shed is a good thing, to support your skills and knowledge, the science should never be allowed to take over. If it does, thats the time to call yourself a benchrester, or whatever you are now, a paper shooter who occasionally shoots an animal. Like I say, only the 400m+ varmint shooters, who frankly leave me speechless with what they can do on a wild day in the hills with a .204 Ruger, only they are "permitted" in my book to obsess about accuracy. Ungulate shooters just turn into dullards the minute they get hooked on "accuracy".

 

[JTO]

But when some one who only shoots at ranges tells you how to shoot deer. and you must shoot wee groups. Then maybe you can see my point.

But if you do not have confidence that your rifle is capable of wee groups in range conditions, how can you be confident of your own ability in the field? That is MY point.

 

[TOMMO.B]

But if you do not have confidence that your rifle is capable of wee groups in range conditions, how can you be confident of your own ability in the field? That is MY point.

If you dont have confidence in your rifle then dont go in to the field. But one can be come over obsessed in tiny groups and what kit will aid these tiny groups that it becomes an obsession. And where is the fun in that? Shooting is our sport that we should enjoy, worrying too much about kit you don't need or I suspect don't understand makes for a dull day out.

 

[User00033]

But if you do not have confidence that your rifle is capable of wee groups in range conditions, how can you be confident of your own ability in the field? That is MY point.

I'd be far more concerned about whether the person pulling the trigger was capable of wee (ish) groups. Take a rifle off the shelf, pretty much any rifle these days, put some bullets in it, zero the scope, shoot three bullets to check all is well... go and try and shoot a deer. That is all that is required from the rifle's point of view. It's nut behind the butt that counts. How someone shoots at a range has got absolutely diddly squat to do with how well they'll go in the field.

 

[GSP84]

This thread seemed to pop up quickly after my accuracy thread, and maybe I shouldn't be so self conscious and assume my post formed part of the rationale for the originator feeling obliged to start the topic.

My main issue with my rifle was that... if something comes with a guarantee... then it should meet the expectations of the guarantee.

Equally as much was my confidence to be able to take a second shot after a beast has run 50+ yards to ensure an ethical kill. Truth be told I've never had a beast run...but if the second shot is out by 1.5 to 2 inch at 100yards... then at 150 yards for a second shot it could frankly be anywhere.

 

[75]

Time at the range is never wasted and having confidence in your equipment is paramount. However, in my opinion range time is no substitute for the real thing - it helps, but it's no substitute.

I used to be out 3 times a week and would average 30-50 deer a year (plus a fair few foxes), not as many as some but still quite a few for someone with a full time job! I was much more confident in my ability, much quicker to take the shot (which sometime is the difference between getting a shot or not, or even getting a second animal out of a herd) and generally a better all round shot in the field than I am now.

 

[Highlandsjohn]

I agree with this. john

 

[mchughcb]

I was always under the impression that the sport was in the stalking not the shot which should be more or less a foregone conclusion and somewhat of an anti climax, more and more seem to be more interested in shooting rather than the stalking would be snipers with all the latest technology to enable them to take longer and longer shots ,nothing wrong with that in itself but its not stalking.

If its a foregone conclusion then I assume you mean the animal is broadside and has no idea that you are about to drop the hammer. At what range does that occur? If there is no cover which you can to get within 200m then how are people getting close enough without disturbing the deer, by crawling on their bellies in ghillie suits for 2 hours to get within 50m to shoot off a bipod? Just asking the question?

Try shooting 80m, 20 feet up a tree off hand on a 26" platform in the wind lol!

 

[TOMMO.B]

If its a foregone conclusion then I assume you mean the animal is broadside and has no idea that you are about to drop the hammer. At what range does that occur? If there is no cover which you can to get within 200m then how are people getting close enough without disturbing the deer, by crawling on their bellies in ghillie suits for 2 hours to get within 50m to shoot off a bipod? Just asking the question?

Try shooting 80m, 20 feet up a tree off hand on a 26" platform in the wind lol!

Aye that is what i call stalking. Wet belly from crawling up a burn tae get in close to the beast. Thats the challenge of the stalk. The shot is the easiest part of the whole process.

 

[JTO]

If you dont have confidence in your rifle then dont go in to the field.

And how do you get confidence in your rifle? By practicing on rabbits' heads? or inaminate targets, whether on a range or not?

 

[TOMMO.B]

And how do you get confidence in your rifle? By practicing on rabbits' heads? or inaminate targets, whether on a range or not?

Yeah set up a range in the field at what ever distance. Fire a few shots zero in scope, if all is good then on ye go. It is not rocket science, Too many times folk over think there shots, whether it be on the range or not. Twiddling knobs, licking there finger for wind ect. changing battery's on rects,

 

[JTO]

Yeah set up a range in the field at what ever distance.

Well, there you go.

 

[TOMMO.B]

Well, there you go.

Aye, set up a range in the field! same conditions as I am stalking in, same weather same wet and mud and the same midgys to deal with. same sticks and same ammo. same ticks and a dog.

 

[JTO]

Aye, set up a range in the field! same conditions as I am stalking in, same weather same wet and mud and the same midgys to deal with. same sticks and same ammo. same ticks and a dog.

I wonder how many other people do their zeroing off sticks.