Scottish independence?

landkeeper

Well-Known Member
Tis simple
All nations want to be able to govern their own affairs not be told what to do from afar
The principle is the same irrespective of where ye are in the world
Humans are tribal its a genetic thing they want to and need to belong to a 'group' nationality is a strong group being told what to and not what to do by others always irks
Add to that mayhem and murder inflicted on 'occupied' territories always prevokes a reaction eventually
 

Woodsmoke

Well-Known Member
I am not the only Scot who would be in favour of an independent Scotland but don't have much time for the SNP
You most certainly are not. For my part, my desire for an independent Scotland stems from a hatred of the Westminster corruption and bias, rather than any anti-English sentiment, or misplaced Scottish nationalism. As a direct result of that very thing following the independence referendum, we have our very own corrupt mini-Westminster controlled by the rabid socialists in the SNP. If the result had been different, I had foreseen a blossoming of brand new political parties all aiming to represent Scottish Interests. A kind of 'For Scotland, By Scotland' type of thing. And from that in turn, I'd hoped it could lead to a loosely federal-style of government, with each region of England having greater autonomy over its own affairs, rather then being dictated-to by the London-centric Westmonster. So, to my mind it would've led to great things for the entire country, not just Scotland. Sadly though, what's come to pass has been probably the worst period of UK politics I can remember in my lifetime, with some of the very worst type of politician, too.

Edit: And incidentally, never in my life have I ever been subjected to so much bias and, yes, even racism. In fact, it's still going on. Evidenced by a couple of seemingly anti-Scottish comments being made
 

captdavid

Well-Known Member
Unfortunately there is some division in US politics. I'm being very general here, but it is between the cities and the country. maybe this is similar to the UK, maybe so, maybe not. This is just a thought, but maybe, once the Soviet Union collapsed, we have no ENEMY. Yes, there is Islamic fundamentalism, but that is like fighting the wind, or something one knows exists, but can't really see. Capt david
 

kes

Well-Known Member
As long as all Britains are given a vote lets get on with it. The first thing to happen would be a Scottish 'King', second Nicola awarding herself the big bucks.
I'm a Brit and proud to be but I can live with being just 'English'.
What is there to Independence - a chance to sing your own national anthem, proud remembrance of the Scots who had their own enlightenment, Sean Connery's money wont last forever and that leaves the hard truth of the freedom to live in national poverty, self inflicted, or go abroad as so many have done.

Engexit would be far worse than Brexit. Just my 'jingoistic' view.

I presume Mr Salmond has been found innocent and Mrs Sturgeon never did break parliamentary protocol by talking to him whilst charges were being brought ..........................................and we speak of corruption at Westminster, as though it were all the fault of the 'English?
The common ground we both share is we are all led by corrupt donkeys and deserve better.
 
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Freeforester

Well-Known Member
Capt, Google 'Darien Scheme'... and maybe come back when you've understood it's implications, thanks.

For the rest of us, Follyrood is just a fourth-rate, central-belt 'Westminster-lite' yapping shop, but with much, much worse players, and unfortunately Armando Iannoucci has already sold the "Thick of it" script to the Beeb, robbing us of the best storylines, except perhaps the one about the SNP boycotting Tunnock's teacakes (hitherto hotly tipped to be their new currency platform) on account of the 'lion rampart' being removed from the wrapper (hidden clue: it's a history thing!)

As P G Wodehouse noted, 'one can always discern between a ray of sunshine and a Scot bearing a grudge'...
 

Hunter5567

Well-Known Member
One thing I've noticed especially when dealing with clients and friends is to never discuss politics or religion. Everything seems to run a lot more smoothly when you avoid those subjects. A close third is the discussion of sports teams, lol.
I did have to needle one client a bit but knew she would be in good humor about it. She stated she was moving to Canada if Trump won and after the election I said, " I thought you were moving, lol ".
 

kenbro

Well-Known Member
One thing I've noticed especially when dealing with clients and friends is to never discuss politics or religion. Everything seems to run a lot more smoothly when you avoid those subjects. A close third is the discussion of sports teams, lol.
I did have to needle one client a bit but knew she would be in good humor about it. She stated she was moving to Canada if Trump won and after the election I said, " I thought you were moving, lol ".
Friend in States was told by his friend...If Trump becomes POTUS I’m emigrating, I’m going to Hawaii...
Ken.
 

reiver

Well-Known Member
You most certainly are not. For my part, my desire for an independent Scotland stems from a hatred of the Westminster corruption and bias, rather than any anti-English sentiment, or misplaced Scottish nationalism. As a direct result of that very thing following the independence referendum, we have our very own corrupt mini-Westminster controlled by the rabid socialists in the SNP. If the result had been different, I had foreseen a blossoming of brand new political parties all aiming to represent Scottish Interests. A kind of 'For Scotland, By Scotland' type of thing. And from that in turn, I'd hoped it could lead to a loosely federal-style of government, with each region of England having greater autonomy over its own affairs, rather then being dictated-to by the London-centric Westmonster. So, to my mind it would've led to great things for the entire country, not just Scotland. Sadly though, what's come to pass has been probably the worst period of UK politics I can remember in my lifetime, with some of the very worst type of politician, too.

Edit: And incidentally, never in my life have I ever been subjected to so much bias and, yes, even racism. In fact, it's still going on. Evidenced by a couple of seemingly anti-Scottish comments being made
There is also a Lot of anti English racism in Scotland which i have received myself! and I am born and bred in the West Marches(Cumberland) only 10 miles south of the Border and 1mile off Hadrian's wall. Or it could be that they still remember my family from the 12-17th century when we used to pop up to Scotland on a hot/cold trod to retrieve our stolen cattle with a bit of interest added on!!!:tiphat:.
Better to be a Reiver than to be Bereaved!!

Reiver
 

Woodsmoke

Well-Known Member
There is also a Lot of anti English racism in Scotland which i have received myself!
It's wrong either way, for sure.

I have a friend in Portsmouth who actually asked me if it was still OK to visit me as it was the popular opinion at the time that Scotland was a hotbed of anti-English violence. My ex's parents in Poole said exactly the same thing. It was a sad, sad time for any right-thinking Scot. In fact, I think that morning was the last time I actually had a real tear in my eye at the thought of just what we'd done to ourselves sank in
 

Finch

Well-Known Member
You most certainly are not. For my part, my desire for an independent Scotland stems from a hatred of the Westminster corruption and bias, rather than any anti-English sentiment, or misplaced Scottish nationalism. As a direct result of that very thing following the independence referendum, we have our very own corrupt mini-Westminster controlled by the rabid socialists in the SNP. If the result had been different, I had foreseen a blossoming of brand new political parties all aiming to represent Scottish Interests. A kind of 'For Scotland, By Scotland' type of thing. And from that in turn, I'd hoped it could lead to a loosely federal-style of government, with each region of England having greater autonomy over its own affairs, rather then being dictated-to by the London-centric Westmonster. So, to my mind it would've led to great things for the entire country, not just Scotland. Sadly though, what's come to pass has been probably the worst period of UK politics I can remember in my lifetime, with some of the very worst type of politician, too.
I was with you there, especially the concept of a federal alliance rather than a union of the crown (something I've always argued for), until you said Scotland for Scotland but England dissolved and broken up into regions. The tired old trope that nationalism and cultural identity is only permissible for the Welsh, Irish and Scots while England is an evil behemoth that should be dismantled for the good of mankind, and pride in one's English national and cultural identity is some kind of extremism is fighting talk to a lot of people down here. If you want to see what real hate rather than half-cut chippiness looks like, you're pushing all the right buttons.

I loath Westminster too. That is to say I loath the Westminster bubble and the infantilised people who populate it with their trendy, self-referential left-wing metropolitan group-think; and I hate the incompetent and arrogant clique of intellectual pygmies that has crawled out of it to control our governance and media. England is not Westminster. It's a complete country as worthy of national identity, national pride, a single national capital and a single national parliament as anywhere else. I just wish that capital was Winchester, York, Penrith, Newcastle, Shrewsbury - anywhere other than London, because as far as I am concerned, London is a foreign place with which I have nothing in common. It bears no relation to the rest of the England, does not speak for us and should never be thought of in any way as representative of England as a whole. If I had my way I'd tow London out into the north sea and torpedo it with everyone still aboard. It is not my capital city.
Take London and what it has become and grind into pieces by all means but keep your hands off the rest of us.
 

captdavid

Well-Known Member
We have no enemy ?

Forgotten about ISIS & all extrermist islamists?


Not a threat or enemy of UK ?
Perhaps you should have read further, or I could have been more clear. it's hard for me to explain, but the Soviet Union, The Axis Powers were governments and ideas that could be defeated. Islamic Fundamentalism is different. capt david
 

Woodsmoke

Well-Known Member
I was with you there, especially the concept of a federal alliance rather than a union of the crown (something I've always argued for), until you said Scotland for Scotland but England dissolved and broken up into regions
That's not what I said!

'I'd hoped it could lead to a loosely federal-style of government, with each region of England having greater autonomy over its own affairs, rather then being dictated-to by the London-centric Westmonster'


I thought my meaning was obvious? How can the South of England and the North East (and even regions within those areas) be treated the same by a disassociated central government? England is as rich in culture and tradition as anywhere else in the UK, and the various demographics have completely individual requirements when it comes to governance, just as you say. Apologies if it came across any other way, it certainly wasn't intended to be.

I also believe I said something along the lines of it potentially leading to better things for the entire country?
 

Pedro

Well-Known Member
There's a different answer for everyone.

Give it a decade or three and we'll all be back living in separate town and village states, raiding each other and running off with horses and women.
 

Sonicdmb73

Well-Known Member
Captdavid.
I don’t think you will ever get a truly unbiased version of history.
History is written by the victors.
One man’s terrorist is another’s freedom fighter.
I could go on but I’m sure you get my drift.

There’s a long history of rivalries between different parts of these Great islands.
I live very near the border of two counties that have historically not got on. This continues all be it mainly good humoured. We do need a fairer system of government. The current urban bias doesn’t address the rural needs.

Nicola Sturgeon and her ilk are not in my opinion working for Scotland, but as the shower in Westminster for themselves.
Would Scotland be better off independent I don’t know. But it is a damn shame that self serving politicians cause the divisions they do.
 

flying felix

Well-Known Member
One thing to remember is that our political system is based upon us voting lairs into power knowing full well that they are lying. I think only the Ancient Greeks got it right in that you cannot volunteer of public office and you can only hold that office for a set period of time. completely doing away with the self serving "professional" politicians, who's only priority is to say in a job.

I think that if Scotland wants independence then it should have it, but be aware of the downfalls. Even with the Barnett formula Scotland has had to raise its own taxes higher than the rest of the UK. Remove the money from Westminster and the fact at they would end up joining the PIIGS the EU would be very reluctant to accept them.

Basically the SNP wants out of the UK but to swap one Sugar Daddy or another.
 

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