Sell 17 hmr and go for hornet

25 Sharps

Well-Known Member
Swapped my HMR for a 0.22 hornet about 4 years ago, absolutely love it! My out and out favourite rifle, have just had to change as the barrel gave up on my CZ have a BRNO fox now which is lovely. It is not loopy for a small cartridge, it won't keep up with 0.223 or 0.204 but it burns around 10 grains less powder so why should it? Totally different cartridges. It feels like shooting a rimfire, very little recall, quiet with the right mod but nudging 0.222 energies, point and shoot with 35 gr v-max 0-130ish yards and about 1-1.5" drop to 160, it can be pushed a lot further as @TriggerPull posted above with the right bullet (guess who talked him into buying a hornet :norty: ) but you have the 0.243 which can be loaded with 55/55 gr bullets for a laser flat foxing round but the 0.22 hornet sits very well between rimmy and 'medium' powder capacity centre fires. I have had a long running debate with @Guesty about the pro'sd and cons of .17 or 0.22 him having the former and me having the latter, 0.22 produces and carries more energy further, .17 is flatter quicker and possibly slightly more accurate though guesty is a better shot than me!

Cost wise its cheap, 500+ rounds for a pound of powder, keep an eye out for bargains bullets, I am loading 35 gr varmageddon 16p per bullet, 8p of powder, 4p for primer and say 1p each firing of the case- 29 p per round so cheaper than HMR or WMR around here. .17 can be loaded even cheaper especially with the cheap 17 gr bullets available but these don't have the accuracy for longer ranges but for a 150 yard HMR replacement and at 5-6p a bullet who cares!!

Basically do it, very unlikely you'll regret it!!
 

Dave881

Well-Known Member
I have to admit to a really strong urge to put a 204 Ruger on my ticket and rifle in my cabinet! On paper that round would seem to be the answer to the unspoken prayer for something that pretty much covers BOTH sides of the discussion here, only possibly better than either!!.. Definitely my next buy methinks, but if my above premise is anywhere near correct, I will then have not one but TWO virtually 'redundant' rifles in my cabinet, which will irk me considerably!!.. Heyho! Upwards & Onwards... maybe?

ATB ...... and shoot safely


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I would have to say, if you have that itch then scratch it. I am very lucky that I have the opportunity to shoot 17 and 22 hornet and 204 and I really enjoy shooting all of them, they are all great for the job and all do different things in different conditions. I personally think that 204 is the most versatile of the three though and if I had to pick just one it would be the 204.
Dave
 

25 Sharps

Well-Known Member
I would have to say, if you have that itch then scratch it. I am very lucky that I have the opportunity to shoot 17 and 22 hornet and 204 and I really enjoy shooting all of them, they are all great for the job and all do different things in different conditions. I personally think that 204 is the most versatile of the three though and if I had to pick just one it would be the 204.
Dave
Realistically though will the .204 do anything a .243 (which the OP already has) shooting a 55/58 gr bullets at 3800 FPS plus won’t do? If fast and flat is the aim of the game? Ok .243 burns a bit more powder but cheaper than a whole new set up for that niche
 

Dave881

Well-Known Member
Realistically though will the .204 do anything a .243 (which the OP already has) shooting a 55/58 gr bullets at 3800 FPS plus won’t do? If fast and flat is the aim of the game? Ok .243 burns a bit more powder but cheaper than a whole new set up for that niche
Without having a look at the ballistics I can't say for sure but I would think a 55 grain 243 load would be fairly similar to a 204 but then you need to consider what the 243 is used for primarily, of the 243 is set up using 90-100 grain then you would have to keep changing zero or have two scopes on QR mounts. It's not impossible but a bit of a faff. But I do agrre that the gap could be filled by light for caliber bullets in another cartridge.
But don’t the 55g wear the barrel on 243 due to the speed
Yes hot 55 grain bullets will be harder on barrels but that is true for and hot and or light for calibre load.
 

25 Sharps

Well-Known Member
Without having a look at the ballistics I can't say for sure but I would think a 55 grain 243 load would be fairly similar to a 204 but then you need to consider what the 243 is used for primarily, of the 243 is set up using 90-100 grain then you would have to keep changing zero or have two scopes on QR mounts. It's not impossible but a bit of a faff. But I do agrre that the gap could be filled by light for caliber bullets in another cartridge.
True, but with a decent scope that tracks then you should be able to dial between 2 zeroes, but agreed its a faff, personally I just don't think that .204 is an HMR replacement its too much of a 'step up' to be a direct replacement if you know what I mean?

Certainly for me at ranges out to 200 yards as a hare and rabbit gun the niche is made for a hornet!
 

Dave881

Well-Known Member
True, but with a decent scope that tracks then you should be able to dial between 2 zeroes, but agreed its a faff, personally I just don't think that .204 is an HMR replacement its too much of a 'step up' to be a direct replacement if you know what I mean?

Certainly for me at ranges out to 200 yards as a hare and rabbit gun the niche is made for a hornet!
I do see exactly what you mean and yes the 22 hornet is a closer fit for bunny shooting and foxing if staying withing 200 yards, I wouldn't be disappointed with either cartridge to be honest and am lucky enough to have both, the 204 does really show its benefit past 200 yards and if you can or do shoot that far, be it vermin control of targets then 204 is the better choice. If you do shoot further and can only have the one rifle then for me 204 wins. If you are head shooting rabbits it doesn't make any difference what cartridge you use. Horses for courses I guess.
Dave
 

sir-slots-alot

Well-Known Member
True, but with a decent scope that tracks then you should be able to dial between 2 zeroes, but agreed its a faff, personally I just don't think that .204 is an HMR replacement its too much of a 'step up' to be a direct replacement if you know what I mean?

Certainly for me at ranges out to 200 yards as a hare and rabbit gun the niche is made for a hornet!

And that is exactly the issue with the 22 Hornet. One could ask , why go through the trouble of getting yourself a centre-fire on your FAC and have the added cost and mither of reloading - then opt for a calibre that gives you about 70 yrds extra over the HMR. :doh: In centre-fire terms , the 22H does have a loopy trajectory and is bettered by everything around it, (It might be worth looking at the table below to just see how much)

My experience of owning and shooting 22 H was that it fitted a very small niche that ALL the other small centre fires easily filled , and then some.

I found the 17 H much more suitable for the longer range vermin shooting and the occasional fox. The 17 handles very similar to the HMR , but with much more legs that the extra 1200 fps gives. The 17H also has the all important safety advantage of having bullets that don't lent themselves to ricochets.


Image result for trajectory of the 17 hornet v the 22 hornet

Image result for trajectory of the 17 hornet v the 22 hornet
 

Dave881

Well-Known Member
And that is exactly the issue with the 22 Hornet. One could ask , why go through the trouble of getting yourself a centre-fire on your FAC and have the added cost and mither of reloading - then opt for a calibre that gives you about 70 yrds extra over the HMR. :doh: In centre-fire terms , the 22H does have a loopy trajectory and is bettered by everything around it, (It might be worth looking at the table below to just see how much)

My experience of owning and shooting 22 H was that it fitted a very small niche that ALL the other small centre fires easily filled , and then some.

I found the 17 H much more suitable for the longer range vermin shooting and the occasional fox. The 17 handles very similar to the HMR , but with much more legs that the extra 1200 fps gives. The 17H also has the all important safety advantage of having bullets that don't lent themselves to ricochets.


Image result for trajectory of the 17 hornet v the 22 hornet

Image result for trajectory of the 17 hornet v the 22 hornet
That's a really interesting chart and very enlightening, it's interesting that the centerfire 17s out perform both the the 22s on drop. What would be interesting is to see the data for a 204 with a 39 grain bullet at a high speed load. If I get a chance I will have a look at the numbers for a comparison. Thanks for sharing that, it's really got me thinking.
Dave
 

25 Sharps

Well-Known Member
And that is exactly the issue with the 22 Hornet. One could ask , why go through the trouble of getting yourself a centre-fire on your FAC and have the added cost and mither of reloading - then opt for a calibre that gives you about 70 yrds extra over the HMR. :doh: In centre-fire terms , the 22H does have a loopy trajectory and is bettered by everything around it, (It might be worth looking at the table below to just see how much)

My experience of owning and shooting 22 H was that it fitted a very small niche that ALL the other small centre fires easily filled , and then some.

I found the 17 H much more suitable for the longer range vermin shooting and the occasional fox. The 17 handles very similar to the HMR , but with much more legs that the extra 1200 fps gives. The 17H also has the all important safety advantage of having bullets that don't lent themselves to ricochets.


Image result for trajectory of the 17 hornet v the 22 hornet

Image result for trajectory of the 17 hornet v the 22 hornet
personally for me the bother went as far as, 'can i have a 0.22H to replace hornet for a vermin gun as it is more fox capable?' answer was yes send your variation in, new slot on the ticket within a week. This was at the height of the HMR ammo trouble and a bullet lodged in the barrel and several hang fires from different batches and brands, that was a driver more than the 70 yards of extra range.

That is just Hornady's marketing bumf Swap that 35 gr v-max for a 40 gr v-max at 3150 fps, (which is safe in my rifle may not be safe in others) and with a 200 yard zero you are only 1.5 inches high at 100 with the .22H flat enough and Elliot (@TriggerPull ) shoots way farther with his CZ, keeping up easily with his buddy's .17HH - check it out they are both on you tube if the vids. Lets face it most people who plan to shoot further than 200 tend to have a 0.222/.223/.204 in the cabinet anyway. As for ricochets, 0.22 with a poly tipped bullet is just as safe as a .17 bullet in terms of ricochet.

All that said, as soon as I have a spare £900.00 I will be getting a 0.20AH put together - nearly as flat as the .17HH (1" at 300 yards) bit, more energy (288 vs 188 ft-lb at 300 yards) but mainly just because . . . . .
 

Blobby159

Well-Known Member
Yes, but where is the same level of analysis for the original comparator round please, that of the .17HMR.?

Am betting not as good as those shown in that graphic??.

ATB .... and shoot safely
 

25 Sharps

Well-Known Member
That's a really interesting chart and very enlightening, it's interesting that the centerfire 17s out perform both the the 22s on drop. What would be interesting is to see the data for a 204 with a 39 grain bullet at a high speed load. If I get a chance I will have a look at the numbers for a comparison. Thanks for sharing that, it's really got me thinking.
Dave
As I've got the calculator up and running .204 39 gr blitzking @ 3750 fps = 4.45" at 300 yards so keeps up with the 17 Rem, 22-250 55 gr v-max @ 3700 fps 4.98", .243 55 gr v-max @ 3800 fps 4.38" (all factory loads for balance)
 

25 Sharps

Well-Known Member
Yes, but that set of numbers and the graphic do down the .22H considerably by giving as a projectile payload the 35gr V-Max that has a good start speed but a pretty naff ability to hold to it as range progresses. It is a stubby wee thing very suited to close in (100 to maybe 130yds) but looses steam at a hectic rate.

For those in the know who reload a far better COMPARATIVE example would perhaps be the 40gr Sierra BlitzKing. Nothing 'Out there' nor extravagant but waaay better at holding initial velocities and not too difficult to handload to 3,000fps and even slightly above without blowing up cases!!

Were that round to be substituted the graphic may well be balanced differently. Admittedly it is not an "over the counter loading", but I would posset that most who use the .22H for any length of time reload for it anyway and that gives room possibilities to play around with different powder and projectile mixes to suit one's needs a bit closer.... Too, I am far happier taking on a fox within sensible lamping ranges with my .22H (now .22K-H) i.e. in and around 75->150yds, knowing that my shot is very likely to kill the beasty on the spot.

Figures, lies and statistics - or summit like that anyway??

Using the excellent 'iStrelok' ballistic app' if I input the relevant details of my load...
Bullet :- 40gr Sierra BlitzKing
Bullet B.C. (as per Sierra info.) 0.180
Velocity @ Muzzle :- 2950fps
Muzzle Energy @ Muzzle :- 770fpe
Initial zero point :- 100yds
Then at 200yds:-
Remaining Velocity :- 2024fps
Remaining Energy :- 363fpe
Bullet Drop :- 4.1"

Get my drift here??
P.S. I Hope this views clearly here??

ATB ........... and shoot safely



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My rifle would go quite a bit past that with lil gun, remington cases which have about 8-10% more capacity than most other head stamps. That said i run 35 gr v-max in my hornet because that suits the niche it fills, for me, if I'm shooting further then the .223 AI comes out.

Hornets really are frugal to reload too which is a consideration for a lot of people!
 

Dave881

Well-Known Member
As I've got the calculator .204 39 gr blitzking @ 3750 fps = 4.45" at 300 yards so keeps up with the 17, 22-250 55 gr v-max @ 3700 fps 4.98", .243 55 gr v-max @ 3800 fps 4.38" (all factory loads for balance)
That's great data, there seems to be very little in it with these three, it does distroy the 22 hornet though, I ran the data for a 40gr nosler starting at 3700 being a bit sensible and got the following on strellok.

100 yards = +0.67
200 yards = 0.00
300 yards = - 4.92
400 yards = - 15.47

I appreciate that hand loads could go faster than this but it does show how effective this little round can be. The chart above shows that the 22 hornet drops just over 60 inches at 400 yards, the 204 drops 61 inches at 600 so for longer range I don't think you can go wrong with the 204. I have to say this has been a very interesting comparison.
Dave
 

bobby18

Well-Known Member
Don,t do homeloads ,or data or strelok, I just keep it simple with 204,at 50 to 200 yds just aim at the fox and it drops,top of it's back at 250,2inch above it's back at 275,3inch above it's back at 300,works for me,as for any further I,ll leave that to the experts.
 

25 Sharps

Well-Known Member
Of course they absolutely destroy the .22 hornet, they absolutely destroy the HMR too which is what the OP is looking to replace and which is far, far closer to the Hornets than the other 3
 

Blobby159

Well-Known Member
That's great data, there seems to be very little in it with these three, it does distroy the 22 hornet though, I ran the data for a 40gr nosler starting at 3700 being a bit sensible and got the following on strellok.

100 yards = +0.67
200 yards = 0.00
300 yards = - 4.92
400 yards = - 15.47

I appreciate that hand loads could go faster than this but it does show how effective this little round can be. The chart above shows that the 22 hornet drops just over 60 inches at 400 yards, the 204 drops 61 inches at 600 so for longer range I don't think you can go wrong with the 204. I have to say this has been a very interesting comparison.
Dave
The .204R wins hands down within the velocity, keepy-uppey stakes, no question, but that graphic shows off the .22H to its worst cos of commercial bullet choices. The 35gr V-Max is a great little bullet for relatively close shots, not much passed 130yds or so imho cos of the fast shedding of velocity and killing energy etc. But substitute that projectile for the excellent 40gr Sierra BlitzKing and we get far better results for the diminutive ?22 Hornet .. My quite sedate loading of said in my .22Hornet/.22KH gives me 2,950fps and a drop at 300 yds of around 10.7", not a million miles off the stated .223Rem @ 7.1" but faaaaar better than the near 17" of the 35gr V-Max offering!! That velocity can be pushed to 3,100 fps quite easily in my .22KH but at the expense of case life so I keep the loads down to a sensible level for my rifle..

But then I will never zero my .22H/.22KH @ 200 yds and never probs take shots at critters at much over that in any case.... So the data is again somewhat bias in setup and comparison. And again I will ask, whete are the comparative figures for the ORIGINAL COMPETITOR of the .17HMR.?

ATB ....... and shoot safely


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25 Sharps

Well-Known Member
Don,t do homeloads ,or data or strelok, I just keep it simple with 204,at 50 to 200 yds just aim at the fox and it drops,top of it's back at 250,2inch above it's back at 275,3inch above it's back at 300,works for me,as for any further I,ll leave that to the experts.
2 range observations on this.

Firstly I took a 3/4 size fox target to our club at Bisley. Set all club members the challenge of hitting it first shot. A lot couldn’t do it and a few did but were caught out by the wind (including me) and hit the fox a bit far back. Ok, the super fast calibres are all excluded due to range orders but goes to show what real world first shot accuracy can be at range in a strong ish wind (was over 10 mph but can’t recall exactly what).

We have also done similar with random exposures at 300 with very mixed results, although @Bomag was on the money with his .308 AI every time.

Secondly Guesty and I did a head to head on same fox target face, different day, 5-6 mph wind gusting between 5 and 7 o’clock. 40 gr out of the .22H I had 4 in a reasonable group and all kill shots but 1 opened the group to 12”, Guesty with 20 gr (I think) in the .17HH shot around a 3-4” 5 shot group all in the kill zone. So both rounds capable as the flier was more than likely me!
 

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