SGA campaign for female deer season succeeds.

[gixer1]

Great news in my opinion, and nice to see a win! -

SGA campaign sees female deer season retained

Organisation hails common sense decision by Govt

www.scottishgamekeepers.co.uk

 

[finnbear270]

Here Here.

 

[VSS]

Ridiculous!
I'd call it an own goal rather than a win.

My heart bleeds for those poor Scottish stalkers who suffer so badly from mental torment!
God help you if muntjac ever gain a foothold in Scotland, where no-one would be prepared to shoot them for fear of sleepless nights

 

[gixer1]

Ridiculous!
I'd call it an own goal rather than a win.

My heart bleeds for those poor Scottish stalkers who suffer so badly from mental torment!
God help you if muntjac ever gain a foothold in Scotland, where no-one would be prepared to shoot them for fear of sleepless nights

They haven’t yet…so, another moot point.

I think stalkers in Scotland have justified our ability up here to shoot deer, nothing to do with sleepless nights and more to do with ethics.

 

[VSS]

They haven’t yet…so, another moot point.

I think stalkers in Scotland have justified our ability up here to shoot deer, nothing to do with sleepless nights and more to do with ethics.

And when they do, do you think the SGA will be pushing for a muntjac close season to spare their members the mental torment?

I don't think it's anything to do with ethics, and more to do with preserving the status quo of an outdated tradition.

 

[gixer1]

And when they do, do you think the SGA will be pushing for a muntjac close season to spare their members the mental torment?

I don't think it's anything to do with ethics, and more to do with preserving the status quo of an outdated tradition.

Different sub species require different approaches, and that’s precisely why muntjac have a different approach.

And yes, it is to do with ethics for many of us.

 

[AngusBellf]

Based on the ethics, I'd say a good decision has been made. The "sleepless nights" is a tad over egged, but the correct decision regardless

 

[VSS]

Based on the ethics, I'd say a good decision has been made. The "sleepless nights" is a tad over egged, but the correct decision regardless

Culling hinds in Scotland up to the 31st of March - which is what was proposed - would do nothing more than bring it in line with England and Wales. Why is culling in March deemed to be problematic for Scottish stalkers, but not those of us south of the border?
And in all honesty, if they'd extended it to the end of April I still don't think there'd have been any ethical reason not to go ahead with it.

 

[gixer1]

Culling hinds in Scotland up to the 31st of March - which is what was proposed - would do nothing more than bring it in line with England and Wales. Why is culling in March deemed to be problematic for Scottish stalkers, but not those of us south of the border?
And in all honesty, if they'd extended it to the end of April I still don't think there'd have been any ethical reason not to go ahead with it.

Have you been up the hills in Scotland at that time of year and seen how hard it can be on Red deer?

 

[Sheamus]

Have you been up the hills in Scotland at that time of year and seen how hard it can be on Red deer?

Bet he hasn't.. Probably never shot a Red Hind either in later March...

 

[VSS]

Have you been up the hills in Scotland at that time of year and seen how hard it can be on Red deer?

No. Only in November & December. But this isn't about how hard it is for the deer, is it? It's about how hard it is (mentally) for the stalkers. At least, that's the gist of the argument as far as I can see.

But really, the whole thing beggars belief. You don't have to spend much time perusing this site to see how much time shooters spend bemoaning burdensome legislation, and here we have an example of a proposed relaxation of legislation that would have allowed stalkers more freedom of choice in making their own decisions about what and when to cull, and what happens? They go scrabbling after that familiar comfort blanket of red tape. We saw the same reaction to the change in male seasons.
Everyone could stick to the old seasons if they wanted to, but at least the decision making process would be placed in the hands of those who are actually on the ground managing deer, on an individual basis, not the hands of those who sit in offices making rules!

Perhaps I should offer a free outing in late March on the fallow does to our Scottish members. Do you think I'd get any takers?

 

[Rake Aboot]

Yeh I’ll take it Tim
I’ve no issue shooting late season females .

 

[Sol]

Scotland isn't black or white either, a lot of reds are down in galloway and the borders Its not nearly as hard for them down here and birthing times are pretty in-line with England.

Too many people think ONLY highlands, when changes like this are suggested not realising Its a beneficial change that could of been highly sought after in different parts of the country.

That's why I personally consider any change as a good change, Its up to landowners Its weird because everyone will moan soon as something new comes into office & is suggested but here we were, given much more freedom and nope.... folks rejected it.

 

[VSS]

Yeh I’ll take it Tim
I’ve no issue shooting late season females .

As a Scot, I'm surprised your conscience would allow it

Joking apart, you'd be welcome! You could even use your old rifle for the purpose. It won't be this year though. My hand will be barely functional by then

 

[Tikka 270]

No. Only in November & December. But this isn't about how hard it is for the deer, is it? It's about how hard it is (mentally) for the stalkers. At least, that's the gist of the argument as far as I can see.

But really, the whole thing beggars belief. You don't have to spend much time perusing this site to see how much time shooters spend bemoaning burdensome legislation, and here we have an example of a proposed relaxation of legislation that would have allowed stalkers more freedom of choice in making their own decisions about what and when to cull, and what happens? They go scrabbling after that familiar comfort blanket of red tape. We saw the same reaction to the change in male seasons.
Everyone could stick to the old seasons if they wanted to, but at least the decision making process would be placed in the hands of those who are actually on the ground managing deer, on an individual basis, not the hands of those who sit in offices making rules!

Perhaps I should offer a free outing in late March on the fallow does to our Scottish members. Do you think I'd get any takers?

If folk want to shoot hinds until the end of march just apply for out of season authorisation

 

[Nickb]

Culling hinds in Scotland up to the 31st of March - which is what was proposed - would do nothing more than bring it in line with England and Wales. Why is culling in March deemed to be problematic for Scottish stalkers, but not those of us south of the border?

For once I completely agree with you.
Just because you can doesnt mean you have to but it would have been another option in the toolbox.
Seems logical to me that if they want deer numbers reducing an extension makes sense.
I don't get this mental trauma argument , if so get an office job.

 

[Klenchblaize]

We shouldn't underestimate the importance of this decision in the context of much-needed positive Deer Management PR. Specifically in support of humane treatment of the ungulates in question. Hell, we keep hearing how we must all become small food businesses (venison butchers) and professional grade Spokespersons in justifying the culling of deer, so every little must surely help?

If VSS can provide a supporting narrative that justifies ripping a well-developed feotos from a hind, and then casting it into the snow before plunging a knife into, please do and let us know how it goes down when putting it to other than those UK deerstalkers untroubled by such a reality.

K

 

[shakey jake]

We shouldn't underestimate the importance of this decision in the context of much-needed positive Deer Management PR. Specifically in support of humane treatment of the ungulates in question. Hell, we keep hearing how we must all become small food businesses (venison butchers) and professional grade Spokespersons in justifying the culling of deer, so every little must surely help?

If VSS can provide a supporting narrative that justifies ripping a well-developed feotos from a hind, and then casting it into the snow before plunging a knife into, please do and let us know how it goes down when putting it to other than those UK deerstalkers untroubled by such a reality.

K

Why would you stab the feotos?

 

[shakey jake]

I dont really see why killing an adult deer is acceptable but a feotos is bad?
Is it just well developed feotos that is troublesome?
Ive lost count of the number of muntjac does heavily pregnant ive killed. No clue on rabbits

 

[VSS]

If VSS can provide a supporting narrative that justifies ripping a well-developed feotos from a hind, and then casting it into the snow before plunging a knife into, please do and let us know how it goes down when putting it to other than those UK deerstalkers untroubled by such a reality.

K

The only supporting narrative I can provide is that culling females up to the end of March works perfectly well in England and Wales, and I don’t see any evidence of mental disturbance among stalkers, so what is biologically so different about deer in Scotland that makes it so distressing? I'm assuming that the birthing season is broadly the same?
And what's all the nonsense about having to plunge a knife into the foetus? It's still a couple of months away from full term, and it dies when the mother does.
I have, on occasion (and for perfectly justifiable reasons) shot fallow does at the end of April, and even then the foetus isn't going to cause undue alarm to the person carrying out the gralloch. To be honest, unless you're going to go poking about and cutting into the uterus out of curiosity, you're not even going to see it if you don't want to.

There really is no logic behind the objections to extending the Scottish seasons.
Nobody has to shoot deer at a time they don't want to, but freedom to choose is a nice thing.