Shock collar

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Bowland blades

Well-Known Member
Where do I say “The one dog I used one on”?

I have for a number of years had a very close association with Dogtra. Both Dogtra Europe and Dogtra USA.

I speak to dog owners every day who are purchasing e-collars. Several a week!

For a number of years I have run Dogtra U.K.

I know what breeds of dogs get them ordered for the most and I know the circumstances which have brought owners to the decision of spending hundreds of pounds to have the ultimate in off leash control.

I have sold to famous dog trainers, police dog handlers, mountain rescue, special forces, veterinary surgeries and elderly ladies with wayward mastiffs.

Personally I have a background in gun dogs, ran a breeding program for a police force and have supplied dogs to over a dozen police forces in both the UK and abroad. I have also competed in KNPV and protection dog trials the U.K. and Holland with my Belgian Malinois.
From approximately 2000 until closing my kennels in 2012 I visited 90% of the owners of FTCH stud dogs in the U.K. focussing on working cockers and springers.

So I think I have more than a fair grasp of e-collar use in the U.K. and I can assure you that the many stud dog owners who were happy to take thousands of pounds from me were more than candid when chatting about their training practices.

Today I spoke to a chap who was anti e-collar, that is until the police slapped a behaviour order on his dog for killing several sheep. He had sought out the farmer and the farmer had refused any compensation and reported him to the police.
This chap was ashamed at the depths of depravity he had sunk to in order to let his dog have a run off leash and be secure in the knowledge he had control. But like many others, in a couple of weeks time he will be wondering what all the fuss was about and happily walking his dog off leash.
A ban on e-collars will be a very sad day for thousands of dogs in the U.K. who will be resigned to a life in rescue shelters or euthanised because some dogs just really aren’t that fussed about liver treats.

The one dog I used one on exactly as ì wrote . ! Most folks who buy them do not understand how to use tgem and are way too soft to use tgem on their own self I did before I would put is on tge 1 dog in question . I don't think I ever tested it was working with the light
It did quit the sheep but had to be euthanised later for serious human aggression issues . I don't tend to give up easy !
Repeate if a dog cannot be trained by normal means it should never enter the gene pool . Our ansestors we can thank for leaving the UK with gundogs as good and in most cases the worlds best gundogs !
 

dunwater

Well-Known Member
Repeate if a dog cannot be trained by normal means it should never enter the gene pool . Our ansestors we can thank for leaving the UK with gundogs as good and in most cases the worlds best gundogs !

“ Normal methods”…….my friend you are either very young or have a very short memory.
“Normal” included whipping with sticks, ropes or leashes, kicks, shooting up the arse with small shot, choke collars, spike collars, muzzles, all helped along with regular beatings and thrashings. Physical punishment was considered an essential part of dog training up til the 1980’s.
Nowadays any hint of physical chastisement is frowned upon, which may just be a case of throwing out both baby and bath water.
Extremes at either end of the scale are not optimal.
Lastly, your dogs in the UK are good, very very good even, but they are used in a way that’s unique to your needs and shooting culture, so while they’re good, they’re good under your own very specific rules of engagement. In most other places a dog is expected to have a far wider repertoire in the field.
So good, but not the necessarily worlds best.
 
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Bowland blades

Well-Known Member
“ Normal methods”…….my friend you are either very young or have a very short memory.
“Normal” included whipping with sticks, ropes or leashes, kicks, shooting up the arse with small shot, choke collars, spike collars, muzzles, all helped along with regular beatings and thrashings. Physical punishment was considered an essential part of dog training up til the 1980’s.
Nowadays any hint of physical chastisement is frowned upon, which may just be a case of throwing out both baby and bath water.
Extremes at either end of the scale are not optimal.
Lastly, your dogs in the UK are good, very very good even, but they are used in a way that’s unique to your needs and shooting culture, so while they’re good, they’re good under your own very specific rules of engagement. In most other places a dog is expected to have a far wider repertoire in the field.
So good, but not the necessarily worlds best.
You know there ain't many dogs coming in from the USA etc for shooting or stalking. I frankly don't care to keep a gundog I need to thrash or electrocute in order to train it .
 

dunwater

Well-Known Member
You know there ain't many dogs coming in from the USA etc for shooting or stalking. I frankly don't care to keep a gundog I need to thrash or electrocute in order to train it .

There’s a fairly strong trade from both Europe and the US, particularly in pointers,HPR’s and labradors.
If you don’t care to keep a dog that needs physical corrections now and again, or you should find yourself with one that does, but you have both the time and the skills to correct it without resort to physical chastisement, congratulations, most people lack either the skills or the time.
 

Bowland blades

Well-Known Member
There’s a fairly strong trade from both Europe and the US, particularly in pointers,HPR’s and labradors.
If you don’t care to keep a dog that needs physical corrections now and again, or you should find yourself with one that does, but you have both the time and the skills to correct it without resort to physical chastisement, congratulations, most people lack either the skills or the time.
Austria that's it , they have decent labs thier also . American labs I don't rate the methods I rate less
Besides the Austrian blood ( which flows I the veins of one of mine btw ) tge Austrians do pretty much what we do I shooting and training . there is no credible reason to bring any other nations labs into ours ( least of all American)
No physical correction is part of dog training but the e collar is there to deal with the results of poor breeding or lack of the trainers repertoire
There are axlot of ours going over the big pond the other way though one kennel near me has a very healthy trade that way
 

dunwater

Well-Known Member
Austria that's it , they have decent labs thier also . American labs I don't rate the methods I rate less
Besides the Austrian blood ( which flows I the veins of one of mine btw ) tge Austrians do pretty much what we do I shooting and training . there is no credible reason to bring any other nations labs into ours ( least of all American)
No physical correction is part of dog training but the e collar is there to deal with the results of poor breeding or lack of the trainers repertoire
There are axlot of ours going over the big pond the other way though one kennel near me has a very healthy trade that way

As someone else once remarked
“ I value your opinion, but not when I know better “.
Your dogs, your way. My dogs my way.
 

Poola

Member
As a last resort perhaps - livestock chasing when nothing else would work and on-lead is impractical (and you want to keep the dig and have to be out with stock…) - otherwise seen dogs reduced to nervous wrecks after them (and headstrong “hard” dogs too). Have seen them work, I have to say - but would rather try everything else first.
 

Poola

Member
Thinking of it, remote spray collars can be good for training so long as the dog isn’t in full on pelt mode… Still give a “shock” in ter,s of surprise - a little shot of compressed air under the chin (or citronella in the not-so-pleasant version…)
 

Dogtra U.K.

Well-Known Member
Only problem with spray collars is they have 1 level. If the drive in the dogs is at ant level where it chooses to ignore tge spray then you have missed tge training opportunity.

K9 drive as as I am sure you are aware, on a sliding scale. Pet drive when follow img scent is lower down the scale than a flat out chase after a hare.

When using a collar you need to be able to slightly exceed the drive in the dog to bring its attention away from the prey and back to you.
 
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