Shooting deer at night

[Acm]

I spoke with someone today who was livid that it is perfectly legal to shoot deer at night if you have the appropriate piece of paper saying their damaging forestry / agriculture .
Ive also noticed people on this site saying its unethical or in humane , why ?

Surely as long as its within legal allowance it's no different to shooting deer during the day . It's not hunting , it's culling . I'd compare it to shooting foxes at night , sure it's not so fair on the fox but if they are causing damage then you have to take appropriate action . I'd class myself as a recreational stalker , but I do try to understand the bigger picture of culling deer as part of overall land management . I swear some lads on here think they are doing deer a personal and beautiful favour when they pull the trigger .

 

[patterdale]

Good luck with this

 

[see it shoot it]

of course its legal provided you have a night shooting licence as to the ethics and morrals you do whats needs to be done,if it leaves a bad taste in your mouth don't do it,but never knock others that do
that's my take on it

 

[The tramp]

I spoke with someone today who was livid that it is perfectly legal to shoot deer at night if you have the appropriate piece of paper saying their damaging forestry / agriculture .
Ive also noticed people on this site saying its unethical or in humane , why ?

Surely as long as its within legal allowance it's no different to shooting deer during the day . It's not hunting , it's culling . I'd compare it to shooting foxes at night , sure it's not so fair on the fox but if they are causing damage then you have to take appropriate action . I'd class myself as a recreational stalker , but I do try to understand the bigger picture of culling deer as part of overall land management . I swear some lads on here think they are doing deer a personal and beautiful favour when they pull the trigger .

I personally wouldn't do it. I've seen how darned easy it is to get up close when they are in the lamp, I suppose if there is a 'real' reason, rather than the 'nibbling a little wheat, bits lets make an easy buck (no pun intended) under permit' then its a quick and easy way of reducing numbers, even foxes are sporting under a lamp, deer, its easier than taking candy from a baby.
This is just my personal opinion, which counts for nowt

Regards
​Pete

 

[davidm]

If its done properly with night shooting licence in place then I personally don't see any problem. I've been a helper last 4 years on a night shooting licence and if need will be helping agian if work restraints allow.i don't see how it's any less humane than during the day shot placements the same. It's not supposed to be sporting its crop protection.

 

[Acm]

I personally wouldn't do it. I've seen how darned easy it is to get up close when they are in the lamp, I suppose if there is a 'real' reason, rather than the 'nibbling a little wheat, bits lets make an easy buck (no pun intended) under permit' then its a quick and easy way of reducing numbers, even foxes are sporting under a lamp, deer, its easier than taking candy from a baby.
This is just my personal opinion, which counts for nowt

Regards
​Pete

we shoot between 60 and 80 foxes a year and I don't find it sporting really , it would be fair to say at times I find it a chore ! I'm a farmer , and I can assure you nibbling a little wheat could soon be your margins gone in a bad year . With all due respect I don't think you can really understand this unless you have it affect your own profits .

 

[lwcdart]

Guys

Last time i spoke to Natural England on the subject they had issued one night shooting license only, but that was about two years ago now.

So best of luck with that then.

Regs Lee

 

[The tramp]

we shoot between 60 and 80 foxes a year and I don't find it sporting really , it would be fair to say at times I find it a chore ! I'm a farmer , and I can assure you nibbling a little wheat could soon be your margins gone in a bad year . With all due respect I don't think you can really understand this unless you have it affect your own profits .

By sporting, in reference to foxes, I mean it in the way that they don't always make it easy, and can be 'interesting' little blighters, as opposed to deer, that happily stand and graze under a lamp. Also, if people didn't find fox shooting 'sporting', the only people doing it would be farmers as yourself, and people you pay to do it, and I'm sure you know plenty of people who'd jump at the chance to shoot your foxes for you.

I do understand about losing your margins, I spent a few weeks protecting one particular barley field that a massive parliament of rooks (funny how a group of 'thieving birds' is called a parliament) had taken a liking to in the last hot spell.

My point about 'real' reason, is because I know of at least one person who used crop protection as an excuse to get a permit, harvested said crop, then shot the deer. When questioned, he was moaning the deer were eating the very thin (6") strip that he had missed on the edge of the field.

Regards

​Pete

 

[sikamalc]

Getting a night licence in England is not easy, in fact I believe they are like hens teeth. In Scotland it appears they are handed out quite frequently.

I have undertaken it once many years ago with a keeper friend in Scotland on crop damage. It is fair to say that for the short term the deer are easy to take out, but give it a while and they soon learn. As to the ethics, its not something I would want to undertake as a job. To me it takes away the beauty of deer stalking and the skill.

However I do believe that the minimum calibre is 270 and you must have access to a trained dog.

 

[tom308w]

I didn't even think they had issued one night shooting license but plenty going on with lamp and nv

 

[devon deer stalker]

I didn't even think they had issued one night shooting license but plenty going on with lamp and nv

I am beginning to wonder if the licence issued to my landowner friend is 'the only' licence ever issued by Natural England?
I remember talking to a local deer initiative guy who just stopped short of calling me a liar when I said one had been issued, strangely enough when I got a copy and left a message for him to contact me he never rang back, idiot!
He had the licence for one year with strict conditions, he didn't get a single deer because of the nature of his land, I suspect that was in part why he was issued with one.
Cheers
Richard

 

[User00004]

Where there is a necessity, yes! Without doubt! We had a large cull last year to achieve, again, this year. With out the lamping ticket, we would have had maybe half the figures.

What I will say though, it's not easy, locating deer is the easy part, you need to know the ground intimately, having the best equipment available is a must. Just because you have %#}}%^ type of rifle means nothing. Once shot, being able to locate, deal with and extract a carcass all becomes a greater hazard than in daylight. Having a competent lamping partner, either driver or shooter is a must. Knowing your capabilities, then halving them. Everything is a challenge accept finding the deer. Once it's a carcass, that's where your experience comes into it. For those who get a night license for the first time, I can not stress enough, go with an experienced DEER lamper. It is different than foxing or bashing rabbits. I have learned a great deal from my lamping partner, he certinaly made my cull achievable. Which we managed.

I'll be doing it again this year, it's hard work, often not getting home 'till 5am, bearing in mind it gets dark at 1545 here in the winter. But, if you have the license, you have to justify it to yourself if nothing else. If you have the ticket and you spend an hour a week lamping, is the license justifiable? 6 deer an outing was average last year/season. That was Red, Roe and Sika.

​TJ

 

[CWMMAN3738]

Very well put can I ask we're you selective in what you shot?

Where there is a necessity, yes! Without doubt! We had a large cull last year to achieve, again, this year. With out the lamping ticket, we would have had maybe half the figures.

What I will say though, it's not easy, locating deer is the easy part, you need to know the ground intimately, having the best equipment available is a must. Just because you have %#}}%^ type of rifle means nothing. Once shot, being able to locate, deal with and extract a carcass all becomes a greater hazard than in daylight. Having a competent lamping partner, either driver or shooter is a must. Knowing your capabilities, then halving them. Everything is a challenge accept finding the deer. Once it's a carcass, that's where your experience comes into it. For those who get a night license for the first time, I can not stress enough, go with an experienced DEER lamper. It is different than foxing or bashing rabbits. I have learned a great deal from my lamping partner, he certinaly made my cull achievable. Which we managed.

I'll be doing it again this year, it's hard work, often not getting home 'till 5am, bearing in mind it gets dark at 1545 here in the winter. But, if you have the license, you have to justify it to yourself if nothing else. If you have the ticket and you spend an hour a week lamping, is the license justifiable? 6 deer an outing was average last year/season. That was Red, Roe and Sika.

​TJ

 

[User00004]

We had numbers and sexes of each species to achieve. So, to your answer. Yes.

Thats where your equipment comes into it. A £30 lamp will show eyes (if your lucky) a £300+ lamp lets you identify sex and species out to 300m with relative ease, providing you are looking through quality glass....(so the list goes on)

 

[pitiliedon]

I dont think you could flag it as unethical it's just another tool in the box but it is definitely not to be undertaken lightly. You have the issues of back stop you cannot see to be clear, the potential of wounding and losing an animal to suffer a slow death and the risks to yourself in recovering the carcass in the dark across potentially broken ground. Knowing the ground you are lighting is vital knowing what is behind the target in any given angle, vital and a dog capable of following up will pay for it's keep in spades if you have the occassion to need it. And yes you can lose a deer in a flat open field! I am more and more concerned with people taking access at night to either go up or come down local Monroe's and corbetts , many have led's ,many dont . I have lit more than one person wandering across the hill side and maybe got a reflection from panels on their sneakers or back pack to draw my interest before realising it was a walker.

 

[swarovski]

I spoke with someone today who was livid that it is perfectly legal to shoot deer at night if you have the appropriate piece of paper saying their damaging forestry / agriculture .
Ive also noticed people on this site saying its unethical or in humane , why ?

Surely as long as its within legal allowance it's no different to shooting deer during the day . It's not hunting , it's culling . I'd compare it to shooting foxes at night , sure it's not so fair on the fox but if they are causing damage then you have to take appropriate action . I'd class myself as a recreational stalker , but I do try to understand the bigger picture of culling deer as part of overall land management . I swear some lads on here think they are doing deer a personal and beautiful favour when they pull the trigger .

stand up and be counted that man, that a fair comment.

 

[Acm]

stand up and be counted that man, that a fair comment.

Sorry swaro , not really sure what you mean !

 

[Acm]

By sporting, in reference to foxes, I mean it in the way that they don't always make it easy, and can be 'interesting' little blighters, as opposed to deer, that happily stand and graze under a lamp. Also, if people didn't find fox shooting 'sporting', the only people doing it would be farmers as yourself, and people you pay to do it, and I'm sure you know plenty of people who'd jump at the chance to shoot your foxes for you.

I do understand about losing your margins, I spent a few weeks protecting one particular barley field that a massive parliament of rooks (funny how a group of 'thieving birds' is called a parliament) had taken a liking to in the last hot spell.

My point about 'real' reason, is because I know of at least one person who used crop protection as an excuse to get a permit, harvested said crop, then shot the deer. When questioned, he was moaning the deer were eating the very thin (6") strip that he had missed on the edge of the field.

Regards

​Pete

If you ever want some rook shooting call me , we are forever over run with them . And yes the irony of thier group name is fantastic .

your right , their are many people who would jump at the chance to shoot foxes , but not so many who want to help weekly often till 1-2 am in freezing cold conditions through the winter ! I've been lucky enough to find 1 good lamping buddy in the last 5 years with exception to my brother and local keepers !


Im not trying to obtain a night licence , the deer around me are not much of a problem I'm just interested in people's views on the subject .

 

[sussex stalker]

If you have a good stalker on your land who makes the effort to get out often enough there is no need to shoot deer at night! Night shooting in England is more of an excuse for not having an efficent stalker who is dedicated to deer managment on your land.

we shoot between 60 and 80 foxes a year and I don't find it sporting really , it would be fair to say at times I find it a chore ! I'm a farmer , and I can assure you nibbling a little wheat could soon be your margins gone in a bad year . With all due respect I don't think you can really understand this unless you have it affect your own profits .

 

[User00004]

If you have a good stalker on your land who makes the effort to get out often enough there is no need to shoot deer at night! Night shooting in England is more of an excuse for not having an efficent stalker who is dedicated to deer managment on your land.

I was going to comment, but deleted.......

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