Shooting if you don't have your FAC with you

[deerstalker.308]

My licence clearly states all the things I ave to do to adhere to it,
1) sign it
2) notify within 7 days theft or loss or transfer
3) without undue delay inform them of change of adress
4) firearms and ammo must be stored securely etc
5) when in transit must be stored securely

nowhere on this very prescriptive peice of paper does it say thou shall always carry your FAC whilst in possession of said firearms.... I think it would say it somehow wouldn't you?


what do the police do if they stop you while driving and you don't have your driving licence with you....... Oh yes, they check on the police national computer system..... They don't seize your car! The police are not, dispite popular belief monsters, they are more often than not perfectly decent folk who can understand reason and logic as long as you present them with the basic facts and don't come across like a total twazzock.....
show me something in law that says we must carry these prices of paper with us at all times......

 

[Chasey]

**** me, i have just explained why it is a good idea to carry your FAC and the very next post is, i use this........!!!
What is the big deal about not carrying your original FAC???
If and when i get stopped and i am asked to produce my FAC i will be able to do so and wont run the risk of having my rifles confiscated you guys that carry copies could end up having your rifles taken away!!!

ian.

Loosing a FAC is bad so if you lose it or it gets stolen your in the poo

They are made of paper and paper and rainwater are a poor mix

I carry a copy I have been stoped a few times and just checking my car registration and looking at my face has been enough for them, but I am sure if they are having a bad day they could confiscate in which case ill go home get my cert and take it to the station rather like I do with drivers licence or insurance details in the old days.

It is not an offence to not carry the cert but it is an offence to lose one

ATB

Chasey

 

[Dalua]

I'm not sure if its an actual legal requirement, but I'd think its something that should be best practice for all shooters regardless of what they shoot.

I think its very important for folk in our already over-restricted circumstances that we refrain from starting to introduce extra-legal notions of 'best practice' when these relate only to possible avoidance of inconvenience by the FAC-holder himself.
I generally choose not to carry FAC/SGC when shooting. They might be left in my vehicle, but equally thay might not be. Defined 'Best practice' (or, better-described, uniformly good practice) has its place in safety, conduct with respect to others and food hygiene.

We don't need the Police to be given any encouragement to take 'a dim view' of folk going lawfully about their lawful business, simply because they have chosen not to risk losing their FAC, or an image of it, and thereby delivering their address and knowledge of their gun-ownership into the hands of goodness-knows-who.

 

[Whitebeard]

I never said that the law requires you to carry your FAC just explained why it is a good idea to do so.
More often the not are the key words here mate, common sense does not always prevail my friend so why put yourself at risk of confiscation for the sake of not carrying your FAC??

Ian.

 

[packrat]

Packrat i am not having a go at you mate, but it seems to me that there some on here that cant grasp why it is a good idea to carry your original FAC/SGC.
It is not a legal requirement to carry your FAC/SGC, however regardless of what copies you carry, regardless of modern technology, regardless of what checks the police can make, the law allows a police officer to sieze your firearms if you cannot when requested show your original FAC/SGC and keep them untill a time when you can produce your FAC/SGC, thats it no way round it, no buts, thats the law.

Ian.

Ian I totally agree and I do carry it with me at all times when I am shooting unless the police have it because they are doing a variation. Not much I can do about that other than "not shoot" until they send it back. So a photo of it is the best I can manage under those circumstances.

 

[deerstalker.308]

I never said that the law requires you to carry your FAC just explained why it is a good idea to do so.
More often the not are the key words here mate, common sense does not always prevail my friend so why put yourself at risk of confiscation for the sake of not carrying your FAC??

Ian.

Because, unlike some it would seem, (perhaps naively) I don't live in fear and trembling of our police service, I have a very good relationship with them in fact, I beleive in reason and common sense, if I meet the one officer who when presented with what I said before about being a mile or two from my home address with a photo copy of my ticket still insists on taking my firearms off me, then boo hoo..... I'll nip home and get my licence. But you will get in more flack from them if you lose your ticket while out stalking than you will for not having it with you....

 

[paul o']

I don't mine is stored in a safe place the safe ! unless I am buying ammo or such like this it the best place for it!. I have a copy in my folder and a mobile copy if old bill wish to look after my gear overnight that's cool but i'v never been requested that I give over my rifle as the pnc tells them who I am and from other id it gives all the info they need , saying that I do have it with me if I am going to a new venue should the stalker or keeper/land owner request it.

 

[bewsher500]

I dont feel the need to carry my driving license when I am in the car any more than I feel the need to carry my FAC when I am out shooting.
It is a certificate...not a PERMIT

The only people with any authority to request it are the same people who have it on file and can check all details over the phone or radio.
Apart from the fact that mine is in a pouch with all my other shooting stuff and cards/certs....am buggered if I am carrying that with me.
I may have it in the car but not usually..cars get broken into

replacing all that guff would be a proper PITA

 

[packrat]

It is not an offence to not carry the cert but it is an offence to lose one

With respect, that's incorrect.

It's an offence not to report the loss of one, and you are expected to keep your certificate safe, but it's no more an offence to "lose" a FAC than it is to lose a rifle. If you lose a rifle you might be in trouble, it would depend completely upon the circumstances of the loss. It's not an offence to lose a rifle per se.


I could be wrong, I am not a lawyer, this does not constitute advice, etc. etc.

 

[JTO]

Packrat i am not having a go at you mate, but it seems to me that there some on here that cant grasp why it is a good idea to carry your original FAC/SGC.
It is not a legal requirement to carry your FAC/SGC, however regardless of what copies you carry, regardless of modern technology, regardless of what checks the police can make, the law allows a police officer to sieze your firearms if you cannot when requested show your original FAC/SGC and keep them untill a time when you can produce your FAC/SGC, thats it no way round it, no buts, thats the law.

Ian.

That's why I included the word 'should'.

 

[Chasey]

I never said that the law requires you to carry your FAC just explained why it is a good idea to do so.
More often the not are the key words here mate, common sense does not always prevail my friend so why put yourself at risk of confiscation for the sake of not carrying your FAC??

Ian.

To be honist I am far more concerned about loosing it than I am about having my rifels confiscated.

ATB

Chasey

 

[RED-DOT]

I carry mine at all times as i use it for proving my age in pubs.

 

[Chasey]

I carry mine at all times as i use it for proving my age in pubs.

'
Joking aside I tried to use it as photo ID to open a bank acount and they wouldnt accept it????

 

[JTO]

'
Joking aside I tried to use it as photo ID to open a bank acount and they wouldnt accept it????

Not many institutions will.

 

[Taff]

'

Joking aside I tried to use it as photo ID to open a bank acount and they wouldnt accept it????

yes they will, I used mine on many occasions as proof of I.D. In the UK And it's not a offence to lose your fac, they just issue you with another one, mine lives in the glove box of my truck.

 

[VSS]

'
Joking aside I tried to use it as photo ID to open a bank acount and they wouldnt accept it????

That's odd!
Both my wife and I always use our FAC / SGC whenever a photo ID is required - bank, solicitor, etc etc. Always accepted without question.

 

[Whitebeard]

A few previous posters have stated that a plastic credit card style FAC would be advantageous so would any of you carry this?

Ian.

 

[otbed]

We need to remember the 1968 Act was way before personal computers, mobiles, photocard licences PNC etc. I was a rural police officer in the seventies and even then away from the car I had no radio contact with anyone. Officers on foot or bicycle (in the countryside) had no radio contact and phone boxes were still used to make contact - normally an officer would be at an appointed phone box for a few minutes either side of an appointed time for contact if there was a job! The car had a force VHF set but UHF was used in towns and cities but there was no UHF coverage in the countryside. Eventually we got a rebro system fitted in the car boot to give us handheld radio contact through the car but that was about 73/74 I think. PNC came in, I think, around 75 but in the early days had only basic info on the car's keeper. So, on a dark night in 1969 say, Pc Otbed apprehends a likely looking lad with a rifle in the dark countryside. No way of checking Mr Shifty's identity, or legal possession of the rifle cos he's 'left the certificate at home'. That's why the power to seize is there in the legislation which is now nearly 45 years old.

Fast forward to the 21st century. Pc Modern apprehends me, unshaven and muddy, with a rifle and some rabbits on a dark night in the countryside. We have a chat, meanwhile his colleague has already PNC'd the car, knows who it belongs to (poss that the keeper has an FAC - not sure) and even without my certificate or photocard licence a few simple chatty questions establishes that I'm the keeper of the car, I am Mr Otbed of such and such address and the National Firearms Licensing system is checked to show I'm not as dodgy as I look. I was told that the 'system' is available 24hrs a day for checking by the police but someone advised me that this MAY not be the case in some remote parts of Scotland, presumably due to instant comms difficulties.

I also don't worry about it - unless stalking in Scotland or far away from home where I'll have it usually stashed in the car.

 

[Steve7046]

Packrat i am not having a go at you mate, but it seems to me that there some on here that cant grasp why it is a good idea to carry your original FAC/SGC.
It is not a legal requirement to carry your FAC/SGC, however regardless of what copies you carry, regardless of modern technology, regardless of what checks the police can make, the law allows a police officer to sieze your firearms if you cannot when requested show your original FAC/SGC and keep them untill a time when you can produce your FAC/SGC, thats it no way round it, no buts, thats the law.

Ian.

Like it or not this pretty much sums it up!!! which is why I take mine with me when I go out. Not bothered about it getting wet or damaged, i can send it back and get another...

 

[Taff]

A few previous posters have stated that a plastic credit card style FAC would be advantageous so would any of you carry this?

Ian.

in NZ that is what we have, you just put it in your wallet, when in possession of your guns it's the law.