shooting lease ?

reiver

Well-Known Member
I am after some advise about setting up a shooting lease which will run for up to 10 years.
I am offering a farmer this option in lew of a debt that he finds unable to pay me, due to lack of finances from the lowering of the milk price!!!

This lease will be for all the sporting rights to around 120 acres of mixed farm land and woodland.

How do you draw up a shooting lease and how do i make sure it is honoured by the land owner etc as I have never needed a lease before for my shooting,


Bob
 

tom reveley

Well-Known Member
You could buy the shooting rights for the farm and if it gets sold you would still have the shooting regards tom
 

reiver

Well-Known Member
You could buy the shooting rights for the farm and if it gets sold you would still have the shooting regards tom
That is also a possibility but for the amount he owes me (£600) I thought a 10 year water tight lease was fair.
 

Pedro

Well-Known Member
Are you saying a new owner couldn`t say no to reiver shooting there if the place was sold?
Yep, quite often the shooting rights are sold separately or perhaps kept by a previous owner when they sell.

I would think that for this to work, some sort of insurance that you do get the shooting rights for ten years would be wise, whether that actually means acquiring the rights outright or some sort of legal agreement to ensure the debt is paid should the land be sold. Rather than a quantity surveyor, I would consult a solicitor with relevant experience to protect your interests.
 

bruce w

Well-Known Member
That is also a possibility but for the amount he owes me (£600) I thought a 10 year water tight lease was fair.
for 600 notes he might be thinking i would be better of letting the shooting for real money, and then pay you out ,not good
 

reiver

Well-Known Member
I do not want to go to court to try and get my moneys.
This way it does not put more strain on the farmer who has no interest in the shooting rights.
But is interested in trying to stay afloat!! small farmers are taking the drop in milk prices hard and it does not look like it will get better any time soon for a lot of them.

Bob
 

Gazza

Well-Known Member
Being honest I think the farmer would be very foolish to entertain this arrangement. Yes I have no doubt he would wish to clear his debt but if he sold you the shooting rights for 10 years and if he found himself in a position where he had to sell his land, he would have to sell it on the basis that there are no shooting rights which may devalue the land. £600 debt over ten years on 120 acres obviously works out at 50pence an acre. I would think that even rough shooting ground is worth £1/ £1.50 an acre. Your arrangement is not in the best interests of the farmer. He would be better off selling you the shooting rights at say £1.50/ acre until such time as he sells his farm and at this point pay you the remainder of the debt.
 

Akeld

Well-Known Member
Is he the owner or the tenant? If the latter he won't be able to do any sort of lease. Personally I think you're expecting a lot for £600
 

Pedro

Well-Known Member
That's true. Of course I don't know what the 120 acres consists of, but I assume it's a low ground farm and you say it has some woodland. Perhaps there's a few deer there, perhaps the potential for a small pheasant shoot. Hell, I'd pay £600 for 10 years shooting rights. £60 a year? Sign me up!
 

reiver

Well-Known Member
Is he the owner or the tenant? If the latter he won't be able to do any sort of lease. Personally I think you're expecting a lot for £600

This is in Lew of a buissness det that I will have to still pay tax on and not some cash in hand deal. If I have to go through other routes to get my money's it will cost both party's more money!!.
The money owed is not just for Labour but also materials , the debt is over 6 months old and I have as yet not had any money of the job!!! So still think my proposed deal is a fair one for both party's.
 

Mick9abf

Well-Known Member
Farmers generally know the value of shooting rights and please don't take offence but, without knowing all the facts, £600 for 10 years is taking pi$$ which is something you probably don't want to hear and others might not say out loud.

If you can pull it off you've scored however the with the way stalking is these days I'm sure there would be people, probably on here, willing to 'cut your grass' so to speak and pay double that amount for a year which is something to be mindful of it you value the shooting rights to this bit of ground over the £600 debt.

I hope you get it worked out amicably nonetheless as its not an ideal situation for either party.
 

Gazza

Well-Known Member
Still say that this farmer would be extremely foolish to enter into the agreement. If he cannot pay a £600 debt he is on his way out of farming. Trying to sell his land less the shooting rights may well devalue it by a lot more than £600 or may put some potential purchasers off the purchase in that they would have a third party (you) having access to their ground and have no say in consent. £60/year may sound a fair deal to you and given that some pay their shooting rights with a bottle at Christmas it is putting some monetary value on the shooting rights but the legal implications on this farmer are not worth £600. In that sense I do not believe this arrangement is in any way fair to your farmer.
 

bogtrotter

Well-Known Member
£600 for ten years,that's a bit like kicking a man when he is down, £1 an acre per year absolute minimum and that's an awful lot less than a lot of leases.
 
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Archer

Well-Known Member
120 acres and you are owed £600.

Any deer on the land or will it be just rabbit, pigeon and some game birds that wander through?
Do you have any other land to shoot?

I and a friend pay £500 a year for rights to shoot over about 600 acres - no deer just "vermin" and the ok for zeroing our c/f rifles as often as we wish.
No pre booking to use the land and a bottle once a year and some venison every few months as an extra "thank you".

So, with my limited experience and not knowing your precise circumstances, I would hope for 4 years use of the land to clear the debt but ask for 5 years as a start point.
 

countrryboy

Well-Known Member
It will depend on a lot of things but but without seeing the ground it's impossible to say.

£60 quid a year is not a lot but it mibee isnae worth a lot? 120acres isnae really going to intrest that many people, and probably would be the type of ground u get for doing the vermin or a bottle at christmas. Plenty of farmers give away there shooting for free so its not ll worth fortunes.

I bid 20p an acre on a shoot recently (no deer), despite have the neighbouring shoot it was not worth any more, it went for £1.20 an acre (1000 acres) for dog training and farmer has never ever seen the folk there yet in the past 3 years. Bloody mental money. Only had 1 pond and that needed digger work done
I pay a lot less than the minimum other have mentioned and run a shoot on it


Ps archer thats crazy money to shoot vermin and zero ur rifle. Mibee i should realise how lucky i am up here.


Do u trust the farmer?
Could u not just shake his hand on the deal an leave it at that? Saves the legal hassle of a lease and as someone rightly said the dairy boys are really struggling the now but if u cannae afford 600 quid he might not be in he farm much longer and if it sells it can get complicated if 3rd parties have rights over the ground
 
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