Shotgun Question

unicorn71

Well-Known Member
A friend of mine owns a sec 2 Berretta Extrema with a 3.5 " chamber and has found that he can load 3 2.5" cartridges in the magazine plus 1 in the chamber.This gun is unmodified so are Berretta/Winchester etc guilty of selling sec 1 weapons without proper authority and the owner of holding a illegal firearm ? Your thoughts please.
 

private fraser

Well-Known Member
There's probably a lot of guns where you can "squeeze" in an extra cartridge. It's a can of worms.
Don't is the answer I think.
 

Pine Marten

Well-Known Member
It's fine, it's designed for 3.5" cartridges in the magazine and one in the chamber, and that's what it takes. The fact that you can shove more shorter cartridges in there is by-the-by. All 3.5" semi-autos have this feature as far as I know.
 

unicorn71

Well-Known Member
Thats exactly the advice I gave my friend don't- However interesting theat the manufacturers did not think to warn owners in the manual.
 

Pine Marten

Well-Known Member
However interesting that the manufacturers did not think to warn owners in the manual.
Well it's not dangerous to do so, so there's no reason for them to warn buyers, as opposed to the opposite situation. And they're unlikely to open themselves to legal difficulties by warning people that it may not quite be legal. Actually you can be certain that they took legal advice before introducing these guns to the UK market. It's not like Beretta can't live without us.
 

RED-DOT

Account Suspended
According to my FEO that is an illegal shotgun. She tried four in mine but couldn't get the last one to load so mine is legal. Beretta did let some slip through the net and if yours can load four you are breaking the law according to her. She carries four dummy rounds just for this problem and a gun that can load four will be taken off you.
 
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The tramp

Well-Known Member
They should be limited by the cartridge it is chambered for, it is trust in us that stops us loading extra.
 

Pine Marten

Well-Known Member
Very true pm -btw good luck tomorrow mate.
Saturday actually, but thanks nonetheless! I haven't shot a deer now since March 2014 and it would be nice to end what I think of as my shooting season on a high. Plus that single muntjac mount on the wall is just looking really lonely now. It needs a Chinese friend. My freezer is now almost totally devoid of game too, there's just a single forlorn pheasant in there. And this is my last chance to try my homeloads with my exotic DL1 bullets on UK deer. So watch this space after I return on Sunday!
 

unicorn71

Well-Known Member
According to my FEO that is an illegal shotgun. She tried four in mine but couldn't get the last one to load so mine is legal. Beretta did let some slip through the net and if yours can load four you are breaking the law according to her. She carries four dummy rounds just for this problem and a gun that can load four will be taken off you.
Not my gun RD but noted -thanks.
 

RED-DOT

Account Suspended
Not true... 2X3 1/2"=7"....3X2 1/2"=7 1/2" so if three shorties fit in the magazine the gun IS ILLEGAL.
 

Druid

Well-Known Member
Not true... 2X3 1/2"=7"....3X2 1/2"=7 1/2" so if three shorties fit in the magazine the gun IS ILLEGAL.
Nope, if it's 3 1/2" chambered and fits 2plus 1 of them then it is only illegal IF you load more than 3 cartridges of a shorter length. Not the fact that they CAN be loaded
 
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RED-DOT

Account Suspended
Oh well argue that one at you home visit as Police Scotland are checking this by tryin to put three 2 1/2" dummies up the magazine and if they go in you are in trouble.
 

baguio

Well-Known Member
It's illegal. No doubt about it. It should be held on a FAC.

‘Standard’ semiautomatic guns held on a Section 2 shotgun certificate
i.e. semi-automatic shotguns of which its magazine holds no more
than 2 rounds.


‘High capacity’ semi-automatic guns held on a Section 1 firearm certificate
i.e. semi-automatic shotguns of which its magazine holds more
than 2 rounds.

Straight off the BASC website.

I should bring it to the attention of the seller if I were you.
Why no cover yourself?

When the law came in, plenty of people had to have plugs put in the magazine to prevent more than two cartridges fitting in, or get it put on an FAC. Nothing has changed since.

Baguio




 
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geordieh

Well-Known Member
It is perfectly legal and your feo is talking a load of carp.So if your feo turns up with 3 x 2 inch cartridges and she get them in a 7.5 inch magazine she can take your gun what a load of rubbish some people spout sometimes.
 
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scrumbag

Well-Known Member
It's illegal. No doubt about it. It should be held on a FAC.

‘Standard’ semiautomatic guns held on a Section 2 shotgun certificate
i.e. semi-automatic shotguns of which its magazine holds no more
than 2 rounds.


‘High capacity’ semi-automatic guns held on a Section 1 firearm certificate
i.e. semi-automatic shotguns of which its magazine holds more
than 2 rounds.

Straight off the BASC website.

I should bring it to the attention of the seller if I were you.
Why no cover yourself?

When the law came in, plenty of people had to have plugs put in the magazine to prevent more than two cartridges fitting in, our get it put on an FAC. Nothing has changed since.

Baguio




No, sorry, this isn't the full application of the law and is summary from BASC (not the law or guidance from ACPO/Home Office). There was a clarifying announcement on this and it works as the capacity is for the largest shell size. I shall try and find the exact reference.

Also, there is nothing to stop you making 1" SG shells and you can get a lot more than 3 of those in a magazine tube.

Oh well argue that one at you home visit as Police Scotland are checking this by tryin to put three 2 1/2" dummies up the magazine and if they go in you are in trouble.
Oh I do hope someone is willing to haul them up in front of a court for this as they should know better

Not true... 2X3 1/2"=7"....3X2 1/2"=7 1/2" so if three shorties fit in the magazine the gun IS ILLEGAL.
Well, most semi's and pumps have a bit longer than this length of unrestricted tube to allow for ease of loading the mag and getting the shell catchers to engage
 

Uncle Norm

Well-Known Member
This may assist. H.O Guidance 2013 Chapter 2.

2.14 The marking and certification requirement does not, however, apply in the case of smooth-bore guns, which are manufactured with a non-detachable magazine incapable of holding more than two cartridges. Such guns are not regarded as having been ‘adapted’ within the meaning of section 2(3) since the capacity of the magazine will be secured during the process of manufacture. Although the guns need not comply with the Secretary of State’s specifications, the magazine must meet the requirement in section 1(3)(a)(ii) of the 1968 Act; that is, the magazine must be incapable of holding more than two cartridges.
2.15 When assessing the magazine capacity of a firearm, consideration should be given to the number of cartridges that the firearm was designed or proofed to take. For example, where a shotgun has a magazine which is capable of holding three cartridges but was designed to hold only two, the shotgun should be considered a section 2 firearm rather than a section 1 firearm. Although interpretation of the law is ultimately a matter for the courts, it is thought unlikely, for example, that the insertion of a plastic or wooden plug into a large capacity fixed magazine would, of itself, be regarded as rendering that gun as having a magazine incapable of holding more than two cartridges. The restriction would need to be of an equivalent standard to the methods set out in the Home Office approved specifications in order to meet the requirements of section 1(3)(a)(ii).
 

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