Should I have put down a second calibre?

neutron619

Well-Known Member
Well chaps, FAC application for a .308 and mod went in to Cambs police last week. Now spending most of my time distracting myself from waiting to go out stalking with anything I can find... I've even been doing piano practice - what's happening to me?! :D

Just one question that keeps coming back and bugging me - should I have avoided the future 26 quid variation fee and applied for a smaller calibre too?

Now - don't get me wrong - if they sign off a .308 I'll be chuffed to bits. It'll do for anything I could conceivably want to hunt (i.e. anything in the UK) and I've no doubt it'll be fun to reload, so if the answer's "no", no worries.

However, I am one of those people who likes a project and who definitely appreciates having the right tool for the job (or just lots of nice shiny tools!), so I suppose I'm toying with the idea of talking to the FEO at interview and asking if he'll bung a .222/.223/.243 slot on there for a few years time when I fancy a new, shiny rifle of some kind (or at least a set of reloading dies if the wife objects)... I could perhaps say that I wanted to do some muntjac hunting with it, or maybe a bit of highland roebuck stalking... You know - just in case the .308 doesn't work out, which it will, but - you know what I'm getting at - it's rainy day syndrome or something....

I think I already know what you'll all say, but go on - talk me out of it anyway will you?

Thanks,

Adam.

PS - Anyone have any recent data regarding Cambs police turnaround time? They say 4-6 weeks, so I'm expecting 8, but hey ho...

PPS - Good reason for the .308 was a hunt for a fallow buck booked in November, or if they do it faster, I've got another one booked in October, but I'm not holding my breath...
 
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palmer_mike

Well-Known Member
Good idea on getting as much on there as you can, then if you want you can vary it later for what you really want and avoid the £26 !
 

palmer_mike

Well-Known Member
Applied for my fac start of last year on the basis of paid stalking only. Had proof of stalks I'd been on and future bookings.

​Was granted .308 and .243 for deer and fox on this basis.
 

neutron619

Well-Known Member
Ok - thank you for sharing that - obviously that's closely analogous to what I'm doing and you're in the next county, so perhaps there'll be some overlap in practice(!). Perhaps not - who knows?

I'd still be interested to hear from others, as a range of opinions / experience on which to make a judgement about whether to ask or keep quiet would be very helpful.

In posting this, I am assuming of course, that it's possible to negotiate what ends up on the certificate at interview - is that a fair assumption?

I hear often enough of people saying "they wouldn't give me this big calibre so I got this other smaller calibre instead" - presumably that would work the same way for "additions" as well as what you might call "reductions"?

I also mention that I won't be applying for anything for use on fox - so effectively asking for a .243 (or similar) would be like saying "I want a big gun for deer and a small gun for deer" (in the FEO's mind anyway).

Thanks again - any thoughts will be much appreciated,

Adam.
 
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scrumbag

Well-Known Member
Why not say you want a cheaper rifle to shoot for target practice and foxes? I understand HO Guidelines recommend the condition "Any Other Lawful Quarry" and with that you should be covered for Munties / CWD / Scottish Roe if you go the .22 CF root or .243. Do you have a .22lr? If you don't I recommend one!

Ok - thank you for sharing that - obviously that's closely analogous to what I'm doing and you're in the next county, so perhaps there'll be some overlap in practice(!). Perhaps not - who knows?

I'd still be interested to hear from others, as a range of opinions / experience on which to make a judgement about whether to ask or keep quiet would be very helpful.

In posting this, I am assuming of course, that it's possible to negotiate what ends up on the certificate at interview - is that a fair assumption?

I hear often enough of people saying "they wouldn't give me this big calibre so I got this other smaller calibre instead" - presumably that would work the same way for "additions" as well as what you might call "reductions"?

I also mention that I won't be applying for anything for use on fox - so effectively asking for a .243 (or similar) would be like saying "I want a big gun for deer and a small gun for deer" (in the FEO's mind anyway).

Thanks again - any thoughts will be much appreciated,

Adam.
 

neutron619

Well-Known Member
Why not say you want a cheaper rifle to shoot for target practice and foxes? I understand HO Guidelines recommend the condition "Any Other Lawful Quarry" and with that you should be covered for Munties / CWD / Scottish Roe if you go the .22 CF root or .243. Do you have a .22lr? If you don't I recommend one!

I like the sound of that plan in principle - a .222/.223/.22-250 always sounded interesting and, as you say, would do for munties and CWD, but I'd be worried that they'd turn round and say something like "you don't have land, you don't have permission to shoot fox, and you said you wanted a .308 because it would do for everything deer-wise - why do you want another gun?".

I guess what I'm trying to gauge is how much of a chance I have of being successful with your argument: i.e. "an XYZ would be suitable for smaller deer". I've heard elsewhere on SD that cost isn't a good argument to use when justifying calibres, but I suppose it's a consideration.

I don't have a .22LR - I'd like to have one, but I don't have the good reason for one or permissions to shoot it on, so ironically, a big centre fire shouldn't be a problem but a little rimfire is!
 

Naseby

Well-Known Member
I like the sound of that plan in principle - a .222/.223/.22-250 always sounded interesting and, as you say, would do for munties and CWD, but I'd be worried that they'd turn round and say something like "you don't have land, you don't have permission to shoot fox, and you said you wanted a .308 because it would do for everything deer-wise - why do you want another gun?".

I guess what I'm trying to gauge is how much of a chance I have of being successful with your argument: i.e. "an XYZ would be suitable for smaller deer". I've heard elsewhere on SD that cost isn't a good argument to use when justifying calibres, but I suppose it's a consideration.

I don't have a .22LR - I'd like to have one, but I don't have the good reason for one or permissions to shoot it on, so ironically, a big centre fire shouldn't be a problem but a little rimfire is!

if you join a Rifle Club you will have much more flexibility. Reason is simply 'Target'.
You can then switch for free using those slots.
Always pays to have a few empty slots on an FAC, the only limit is Gun Cabinet capacity
Add Mods to everything you can too
 

badbob

Well-Known Member
I think you are getting over concerned.
Get your Certificate through first as it is.
you dont want more delays by late changes.
Consolidate your stalking bookings,
October sounds optimistic hope you get it by then

join a club, do dsc1

apply for extra rifles as and when you need them and can justify them.
dont forget to apply for a moderator for each calibre as well.
 

Pine Marten

Well-Known Member
It’s not a haggling exercise, just approach it as a sort of job application. All you’re doing is putting together a case for why they should trust you with whatever firearms you say that you need. Assuming that the trust issue is fine and that they don’t think you’d be a danger to the public (i.e. not a prohibited person, not certifiable, adequate security, ideally some evidence of training like doing DSC1 and/or membership of a shooting club), the next bit is just a question of “good reason”, and certainly the Met Police aren’t that pernickety about that. Certainly I have no stalking or permissions of my own, all my stalking is as a paying or non-paying guest, but in all cases, not on my own permissions or land, and indeed not in a limited or defined number of places. Other than that, I’m a member of a club for practice and recreation. I asked for a deer calibre rifle for deer and anything else (although most likely just deer), and a .22RF for practice, target and possible vermin should the opportunity arise. And that’s exactly what they gave me, no more and no less. No haggling involved, I just asked truthfully and with evidence to justify it for exactly what I needed and indeed thought I may need in future. I probably won’t use the .22RF for rabbits as I have no immediate opportunity to, and I probably won’t shoot any foxes or boar, but I could if the opportunity arose. Both rifles can be used on targets or live quarry, and I can buy expanding ammunition for both.
 

neutron619

Well-Known Member
It’s not a haggling exercise, just approach it as a sort of job application. All you’re doing is putting together a case for why they should trust you with whatever firearms you say that you need. Assuming that the trust issue is fine and that they don’t think you’d be a danger to the public (i.e. not a prohibited person, not certifiable, adequate security, ideally some evidence of training like doing DSC1 and/or membership of a shooting club), the next bit is just a question of “good reason”, and certainly the Met Police aren’t that pernickety about that. Certainly I have no stalking or permissions of my own, all my stalking is as a paying or non-paying guest, but in all cases, not on my own permissions or land, and indeed not in a limited or defined number of places. Other than that, I’m a member of a club for practice and recreation. I asked for a deer calibre rifle for deer and anything else (although most likely just deer), and a .22RF for practice, target and possible vermin should the opportunity arise. And that’s exactly what they gave me, no more and no less. No haggling involved, I just asked truthfully and with evidence to justify it for exactly what I needed and indeed thought I may need in future. I probably won’t use the .22RF for rabbits as I have no immediate opportunity to, and I probably won’t shoot any foxes or boar, but I could if the opportunity arose. Both rifles can be used on targets or live quarry, and I can buy expanding ammunition for both.

Pine Marten, you have a PM.
 

bewsher500

Well-Known Member
Always ask for more than you need and always ask for moderators whether you use them or not!!
mods are always given and can be swapped for future items free on a one for one
For a first app though just get the one you need and develop the skills and experience that the Flo will be happy with,
 

neutron619

Well-Known Member
Always ask for more than you need and always ask for moderators whether you use them or not!!
mods are always given and can be swapped for future items free on a one for one
For a first app though just get the one you need and develop the skills and experience that the Flo will be happy with,

Well - I got a call from my FEO asking to visit today. Since they received the form in Monday's post, that's less than 3 days to respond - I'm very impressed. I was almost certain the FEO sounded a little disappointed when I said I couldn't see him tomorrow - I may have just cost him a record turnaround time :D Still - he's going to call again and arrange a date next week or the one after. On the basis that they don't usually bother to visit unless you've passed their computer checks, I'm feeling quite good about it this evening.

Still, since it's ben turned round so fast, I'm going to take the advice that some of you have given me and stick with just the one calibre to start with. It appears that the process is going to be uncomplicated, so in view of today's developments, I'm going to keep it that way as far as I can.

Thank you all for your advice nonetheless - much appreciated.

Adam.
 

Little Jon

Well-Known Member
I put my fac in earlier in the year for 223 fox , 6.5 fox / deer & 30 cal large deer/boar ..No problems, feo said I can have what I need , just show proof of use :) happy days.
 
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