Should the Youth get into deer stalking ???

[rem284]

I think we, who are fortunate enough to be able to offer some advice and/or opportunities to youths or people who are showing an interest in stalking should have a moral obligation to do our best to encourage people and give guidance when possible.

 

[Sol]

Yes, the age of 17 is far too high. As long as your physical big enough to safely handle the rifle and under strict supervision from an experienced person, you should be able to have a go at any age. If more youngsters got the feever for it at a younger age, there would be more of them coming up through the ranks.

Pretty much what I agree with Homer, If a child can be trusted with a firearm certificate at 14 and stalk unaccompanied why cant a 14 year old with no license stalk accompanied with a trusted adult?

Is there even an age limit on using someone's shotgun at the moment? From what I can gather no right? If I'm right SGC's are any age as well.
I'm not saying shotguns are more dangerous, but on another aspect I would say that someone Is much more likely too shoot a shotgun and not think what/where there shooting at than shooting a rifle I feel like even when attended with an adult and the adult is guiding them on what to do.

I've not seen any youngster (more-so Americans) aim at a deer and instantly shoot it, there always waiting until there parents give them the go-ahead.

 

[David Barker]

It's not cost, or difficulty getting a FAC, that blocks young people from getting into stalking, it's a lack of mentors willing to take them out.
Any youngster could tag along with an experienced stalker, at no cost, if there was a stalker happy to introduce them to the sport. Even without a FAC or firearm they could get stuck in with everything else, learn how to gralloch, learn about deer management, learn about safe shooting, and just soak up the atmosphere of being out there in the wilds at daybreak in pursuit of an elusive quarry. They'd be hooked for life before ever taking a shot. And when they turned 17 they could use the stalker's rifle, under supervision, and perhaps take their first deer. Still at no cost to themselves.

But the truth of the matter is that experienced stalkers, on the whole, are not providing this opportunity.

Part of it is down to secrecy: Many stalkers hide what they do from their neighbours, so the little lad who lives three doors down and is desperately keen to get into shooting but doesn't know who to ask, never gets the opportunity.
Another part of it is jealousy: The reluctance to share access to a hard-won permission.

So it's definitely not cost that's the barrier. The barriers are imposed by existing stalkers.

If you don't think cost is a barrier then your a fool. This sport is available to all and scotland has heaps of deer and deer ground for all. Moving on after you have been mentored is a massive Block and the proof is in the stats. average age of a deer stalker /Manager. 50/60 years. Shocking . Now if we have to many deer eg 50.000 alone in scotland described as an environment disaster. Paying in excess of £20,000000 just to keep the numbers rising then something is a miss and it is not the guys shooting or bring there chiller grand children in to the game. The system is broken expensive and precludes the working man were ever possible. £1000,s of pound just to get ready. So the Scottish government think that rising the cost of everything is the answer to lowering the deer numbers in the highland,s

 

[VSS]

If you don't think cost is a barrier then your a fool. This sport is available to all and scotland has heaps of deer and deer ground for all. Moving on after you have been mentored is a massive Block and the proof is in the stats. average age of a deer stalker /Manager. 50/60 years. Shocking . Now if we have to many deer eg 50.000 alone in scotland described as an environment disaster. Paying in excess of £20,000000 just to keep the numbers rising then something is a miss and it is not the guys shooting or bring there chiller grand children in to the game. The system is broken expensive and precludes the working man were ever possible. £1000,s of pound just to get ready. So the Scottish government think that rising the cost of everything is the answer to lowering the deer numbers in the highland,s

If you think stalking is expensive for a youngster to get into, have a think about some other hobbies.
I read somewhere recently something about how much parents pay for kid's skateboarding equipment, and I don’t suppose all those kids were born into skateboarding families.
Horse riding? Ever had a pony mad daughter? How much does that cost? Applying for a FAC and buying a rifle pales into insignificance, yet plenty of kids from non-horsey families do get into riding.
Dinghy sailing? Another traditional hobby for youngsters, but look at the cost of equipment!

So, what does the penniless pony-mad girl with tight parents do? No chance of having her own pony just yet, so she helps out at the local stables in the evenings and weekends, learning all the skills involved in caring for horses, mixing with the right people, loving every minute of it, and eventually getting the chance to exercise someone else's nag. And so far it hasn't cost her a penny.

Likewise the wannabe dinghy sailer with no dinghy and no means to buy one. He crews for someone else to start off with, and by thd time he can afford his own boat he's already well on the way to being a pro.

And the same for the young stalker. Tag along, learn the skills, soak it all up for free.
But it ain't going to happen without willing mentors and role models.That's the stumbling block, not cost.

The opportunities are out there for a youngster to make a career in deer management, and get paid (not pay) to shoot deer.

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

@VSS sailing is cheaper than shooting and stalking that I will assure you, their are youth sailing schemes all over the country that provide cheap qualifications and education in sailing run by volunteers I know this because my daughter sails as as my wife who did the same scheme 30 years ago, also I sail and even I’ve done the sailing qualification to level two my daughter is qualified to level 4.

And you can buy a dinghy for not a lot of money, cheaper than you can buy a shotgun or a rifle for that’s for a dead cert

 

[Pedro]

Like many leisure activities kids tend to get into such things with their dad/grandad. Then puberty happens, then the opposite sex, university, marriage, kids, careers all gang up to sway them elsewhere. Then around middle age, when kids are a bit less dependant, careers are settled and there’s some disposable income folk come back to it.

Which is why a great many stalkers are old gits.

 

[pendle]

If you think stalking is expensive for a youngster to get into, have a think about some other hobbies.
I read somewhere recently something about how much parents pay for kid's skateboarding equipment, and I don’t suppose all those kids were born into skateboarding families.
Horse riding? Ever had a pony mad daughter? How much does that cost? Applying for a FAC and buying a rifle pales into insignificance, yet plenty of kids from non-horsey families do get into riding.
Dinghy sailing? Another traditional hobby for youngsters, but look at the cost of equipment!

So, what does the penniless pony-mad girl with tight parents do? No chance of having her own pony just yet, so she helps out at the local stables in the evenings and weekends, learning all the skills involved in caring for horses, mixing with the right people, loving every minute of it, and eventually getting the chance to exercise someone else's nag. And so far it hasn't cost her a penny.

Likewise the wannabe dinghy sailer with no dinghy and no means to buy one. He crews for someone else to start off with, and by thd time he can afford his own boat he's already well on the way to being a pro.

And the same for the young stalker. Tag along, learn the skills, soak it all up for free.
But it ain't going to happen without willing mentors and role models.That's the stumbling block, not cost.

The opportunities are out there for a youngster to make a career in deer management, and get paid (not pay) to shoot deer.

My daughter had a pony and a pony mad Dad I had 5 of them and I also stalked. Now I just stalk its cheaper

 

[Mike1979]

My thoughts for what its worth:

Lots of us started shooting when we were kids and moved from air rifles, to rim fires to centerfires and then to deer. I had been shooting for 20 years before I shot my first deer and then another 10 years before it became a more regular pass time. Assuming that at 17 you will rock up somewhere and get given permission to shoot deer is likely to be a pipe dream as there are loads of more experienced people out there and landowners will not want someone inexperienced on their ground with a CF rifle unless you are lucky enough to be a family friend etc.

Start off beating on an estate or trying to get some experience shooting pigeons, crows, rabbits, foxes etc.

We all have to start somewhere but worth a reality check at the same time

As an old fart you will also find that when you start work and a family ...that will get in the way of most things you want to do

But keep at it and I wish you all the luck ....I have always loved shooting and being out in the countryside ... nothing better.

 

[cjm1066]

Anything we can do to expand the shooting community is needed, if not as we age the numbers of shooters will decline.

 

[GGC96]

Reading through everyone's contribution to this thread (even the drama), I can see both sides of the argument. For context, I am 29 and got into stalking when I was 18 although I had started my journey in shooting through clays.

I fully appreciate the position that the OP is in. When I was 18, I moved to Plymouth to study at Uni, I knew no one in Plymouth and even less so in the rural community around it. As any youngster would do I took to the internet where I came across the Stalking Directory and a Facebook page called "Deer Stalking UK". Looking at the prices there was no way I could afford what people were offering, while £100 for an outing might not seem like a lot to you, It was more than what I would spend on a whole months shopping and so I couldn't justify that to myself. Lots of people offering words of advice but they were just that, words. However, through a similar post on Facebook, a chap with some stalking permission about an hour away away reached out and offered to take me out. I couldn't afford a car so I would go to the closest train station and he would pick me up from there. He taught me everything that I needed to know for a good foundation, fieldcraft, some shooting practice, how to gralloch a deer and he was my mentor for my FAC application. What did it cost me? Nothing. Did I have to go out with him every weekend he was out? No, he understood that I had a life (studies, work and chasing girls) outside of deer stalking. Did he stop because I couldn't make it at times? Also no. In fact, even though we now live on opposite ends of the country, we still talk regularly sharing our experiences.

What's the point of my story - I think that all those recreational stalkers (note recreational and not professional), should be more welcoming and take youngsters out when they can whilst also be understanding that they might not have as much free time or the same commitment as you. I now find myself in the fortunate position of having plenty of access to deer stalking. I got to that stage through a combination of everything everyone has said prior, beating, pest control, helping out keepers and farmers when they have needed it.

"Words of Advice" - as mentioned above, as helpful as words of advice are they are just that ... words ... with that in mind, I don't want to just offer words. I have previously on the SD offered to take novices out having taken 5 in total so far, all bar one have now got their FAC, DSC1/2 and their own ground/on a syndicate. What did I charge them? Nothing. Did I expect them to be out with me every weekend and every night that I was out foxing? Again no. We just have to be more understanding.

In this case, I have arranged with the OP to have a call with his dad and see if I can get him out to accompany me on a stalk where he can see first hand what stalking is and whether or not it is something he would like to pursue. I will also do my best to impart the knowledge I have if he does keep coming along. When I see that the time is right, I will get him shooting paper with the 22 and eventually progress to CF. All to culminate in him hopefully taking his first deer. I implore you all to make an effort and sharing more than just words of wisdom.

 

[Fireflytk]

Thank you for this this was a good read

Reading through everyone's contribution to this thread (even the drama), I can see both sides of the argument. For context, I am 29 and got into stalking when I was 18 although I had started my journey in shooting through clays.

I fully appreciate the position that the OP is in. When I was 18, I moved to Plymouth to study at Uni, I knew no one in Plymouth and even less so in the rural community around it. As any youngster would do I took to the internet where I came across the Stalking Directory and a Facebook page called "Deer Stalking UK". Looking at the prices there was no way I could afford what people were offering, while £100 for an outing might not seem like a lot to you, It was more than what I would spend on a whole months shopping and so I couldn't justify that to myself. Lots of people offering words of advice but they were just that, words. However, through a similar post on Facebook, a chap with some stalking permission about an hour away away reached out and offered to take me out. I couldn't afford a car so I would go to the closest train station and he would pick me up from there. He taught me everything that I needed to know for a good foundation, fieldcraft, some shooting practice, how to gralloch a deer and he was my mentor for my FAC application. What did it cost me? Nothing. Did I have to go out with him every weekend he was out? No, he understood that I had a life (studies, work and chasing girls) outside of deer stalking. Did he stop because I couldn't make it at times? Also no. In fact, even though we now live on opposite ends of the country, we still talk regularly sharing our experiences.

What's the point of my story - I think that all those recreational stalkers (note recreational and not professional), should be more welcoming and take youngsters out when they can whilst also be understanding that they might not have as much free time or the same commitment as you. I now find myself in the fortunate position of having plenty of access to deer stalking. I got to that stage through a combination of everything everyone has said prior, beating, pest control, helping out keepers and farmers when they have needed it.

"Words of Advice" - as mentioned above, as helpful as words of advice are they are just that ... words ... with that in mind, I don't want to just offer words. I have previously on the SD offered to take novices out having taken 5 in total so far, all bar one have now got their FAC, DSC1/2 and their own ground/on a syndicate. What did I charge them? Nothing. Did I expect them to be out with me every weekend and every night that I was out foxing? Again no. We just have to be more understanding.

In this case, I have arranged with the OP to have a call with his dad and see if I can get him out to accompany me on a stalk where he can see first hand what stalking is and whether or not it is something he would like to pursue. I will also do my best to impart the knowledge I have if he does keep coming along. When I see that the time is right, I will get him shooting paper with the 22 and eventually progress to CF. All to culminate in him hopefully taking his first deer. I implore you all to make an effort and sharing more than just words of wisdom.

 

[suburban bushwacker]

Thank you for this this was a good read

Agreed, that's what quality behaviour looks like.

 

[Nickb]

My take on it is , you have to have the same mindset as the youngster.

If you aren't singing from the same hymn sheet its not going to work.

They have to listen and learn , be punctual and learn from mistakes.

 

[Mike1979]

Reading through everyone's contribution to this thread (even the drama), I can see both sides of the argument. For context, I am 29 and got into stalking when I was 18 although I had started my journey in shooting through clays.

I fully appreciate the position that the OP is in. When I was 18, I moved to Plymouth to study at Uni, I knew no one in Plymouth and even less so in the rural community around it. As any youngster would do I took to the internet where I came across the Stalking Directory and a Facebook page called "Deer Stalking UK". Looking at the prices there was no way I could afford what people were offering, while £100 for an outing might not seem like a lot to you, It was more than what I would spend on a whole months shopping and so I couldn't justify that to myself. Lots of people offering words of advice but they were just that, words. However, through a similar post on Facebook, a chap with some stalking permission about an hour away away reached out and offered to take me out. I couldn't afford a car so I would go to the closest train station and he would pick me up from there. He taught me everything that I needed to know for a good foundation, fieldcraft, some shooting practice, how to gralloch a deer and he was my mentor for my FAC application. What did it cost me? Nothing. Did I have to go out with him every weekend he was out? No, he understood that I had a life (studies, work and chasing girls) outside of deer stalking. Did he stop because I couldn't make it at times? Also no. In fact, even though we now live on opposite ends of the country, we still talk regularly sharing our experiences.

What's the point of my story - I think that all those recreational stalkers (note recreational and not professional), should be more welcoming and take youngsters out when they can whilst also be understanding that they might not have as much free time or the same commitment as you. I now find myself in the fortunate position of having plenty of access to deer stalking. I got to that stage through a combination of everything everyone has said prior, beating, pest control, helping out keepers and farmers when they have needed it.

"Words of Advice" - as mentioned above, as helpful as words of advice are they are just that ... words ... with that in mind, I don't want to just offer words. I have previously on the SD offered to take novices out having taken 5 in total so far, all bar one have now got their FAC, DSC1/2 and their own ground/on a syndicate. What did I charge them? Nothing. Did I expect them to be out with me every weekend and every night that I was out foxing? Again no. We just have to be more understanding.

In this case, I have arranged with the OP to have a call with his dad and see if I can get him out to accompany me on a stalk where he can see first hand what stalking is and whether or not it is something he would like to pursue. I will also do my best to impart the knowledge I have if he does keep coming along. When I see that the time is right, I will get him shooting paper with the 22 and eventually progress to CF. All to culminate in him hopefully taking his first deer. I implore you all to make an effort and sharing more than just words of wisdom.

Good on you and well done.

One thing of note is that its worth being realistic (as per my post above). However I have mentored a couple of people to get their CF (fox rather then deer as not many deer where I live) and in addition have taken a couple of friends lads target shooting as they have been really keen. So whilst my comments may appear "harsh" I do try and do my bit where I can to help the next generation.

 

[Chris Richardson]

My thoughts for what its worth:

Lots of us started shooting when we were kids and moved from air rifles, to rim fires to centerfires and then to deer. I had been shooting for 20 years before I shot my first deer and then another 10 years before it became a more regular pass time. Assuming that at 17 you will rock up somewhere and get given permission to shoot deer is likely to be a pipe dream as there are loads of more experienced people out there and landowners will not want someone inexperienced on their ground with a CF rifle unless you are lucky enough to be a family friend etc.

Start off beating on an estate or trying to get some experience shooting pigeons, crows, rabbits, foxes etc.

We all have to start somewhere but worth a reality check at the same time

As an old fart you will also find that when you start work and a family ...that will get in the way of most things you want to do

But keep at it and I wish you all the luck ....I have always loved shooting and being out in the countryside ... nothing better.

This 100 % you do find folk saying “ I just want to to go deerstalking “ well that’s fine but expect to pay handsomely for the privilege , the older guys you see who have free stalking have been at it for years and worked towards that land with pest control etc

 

[Nickb]

This 100 % you do find folk saying “ I just want to to go deerstalking “ well that’s fine but expect to pay handsomely for the privilege , the older guys you see who have free stalking have been at it for years and worked towards that land with pest control etc

Yep you need to start at the bottom, I started by beating on various shoots which enabled me to go shooting rabbits and pigeons.

Then by networking gaining my own permissions by rabbitting, foxing and then deerstalking.

You cant expect to land deer stalking immediately unless you are very lucky by being in a farming family or gamekeepers son etc...

 

[Spear Chucker]

This ain’t a thread to source info like my previous one but one of curiosity, what do older deer stalkers and other closely related professions think of younger people getting involved in the sport ( or hobby I don’t know what you would call it ) I would like to know just to have an understanding. What do you think ?

I routinely take my daughters with me, when they can come out. One is keen on photography and loves a warm evening in a high seat watching barn owls etc. For me it is one of the great joys of being a father, passing on what knowledge I have and teaching them the ways of the country. Nothing like sharing the good stuff life brings you, especially with those you love and those who appreciate it.

 

[Quixote]

This ain’t a thread to source info like my previous one but one of curiosity, what do older deer stalkers and other closely related professions think of younger people getting involved in the sport ( or hobby I don’t know what you would call it ) I would like to know just to have an understanding. What do you think ?

We need youngsters coming into the sport. None of up are going to live forever, and the skills, knowledge, and experience that we have needs to be passed from generation to generation. If not, we lose the sport entirely. If that happens, we'll probably eventually see the end of deer as a viable species in the UK entirely

 

[Pine Marten]

Nope.

Beating gives the young uns a day or two shooting birds at end of the season for nout and most shoots hereabouts welcome the help. The keepers also sometimes gives them a stalk if they show an interest.

Just saying.

Yes but if you don't live in an area where that happens, it's not an option. There is nowhere to show or demonstrate your interest. And in a mostly urban country you need channels for that to happen. Same as if rural kids want to get into tennis or whatever.

 

[Tim.243]

Yes but if you don't live in an area where that happens, it's not an option. There is nowhere to show or demonstrate your interest. And in a mostly urban country you need channels for that to happen. Same as if rural kids want to get into tennis or whatever.

Nothing to stop joining young farmers, You city boys should take the blinkers off. I have lived in a small village with tennis courts a 10min ride away