Shultz & Larsen Victory vs custom with an FN Mauser Action

[PostmanPat]

To be honest - if I had the cash I would buy a new Rigby Highland Stalker - that is the desired aesthetic

Interested in peoples thoughts on the pro's and con's - dream is for something classic looking but as accurate as can be
Thoughts are: either a new Shultz & Larsen in grade 1 stock - then save up some pennies and re-stock it some day with as high a grade blank as I can find and a Rigby stalker type design - go all out with a gold oval, perhaps some other engraving

or - have something built on an FN Mauser action - high end barrel and custom stock

From what I can tell cost wise it seems fairly similar - poss the custom coming in slightly more (and obv having to wait a lot longer to be able to use it).

Final one - the Parker Hale on here is another option - I am slightly concerned about the accuracy etc in comparison to these options - I have only ever nought one other rifle second hand and didn't have the best experience.

 

[Keith Edmunds]

Something like this..............(Yes, I should have bought it)

T

Sold: Thread 'Borden Timberline - Full Custom 7x57 - REDUCED'

Jun 20, 2024

Following on from the article in Shooting Times yesterday, I feel that it might be generate some interest to repost the sale with enhanced offering and reduced price
As part of the "wind down" of my stalking kit, I wish to sell my 'Ronin' built custom 7x57 rifle
The spec is as follows:
Bespoke CM Borden Timberline action, CM fluted bolt.
LW CM Barrel 8.5 twist 22" Medium sporter profile threaded for moderator.
Hand built Rigby Pattern stock - exhibition quality walnut with ebony end cap, and red recoil pad, built and fitted by Gary Cane.
Talley - 30mm custom scope rings
Bottom metal...

• Tikka 260
• Replies: 51
• Forum: Firearms

• 
• 

 

[Navarone]

Surely you are talking about massively different amounts of cash?

what’s your actual budget? S & L are one of the best and most accurate factory rifles available-a true lifetime gun. The custom route will be much, much more expensive than that surely? Aren’t Mayfair Mauser actions 4k+ on their own, then barrel etc etc. a properly done stock with a very high grade blank could be huge money!

The PH on here will be far the cheapest way to achieve what you’d like. It looks a lovely rifle…wouldn’t you go an shoot it, see how accurate it is and decide. It’ll certainly be far more accurate than anyone reasonably needs for stalking!

 

[308rws]

Either would serve you well for the duration of ownership. Personally, I prefer the S&L action and bolt throw over that of a FN Mauser, but that's me not you. Whereas a Mauser build presumably by a British Riflesmith will be unique, custom made to your requirements and so support our UK gun trade. If money is not an object then follow your heart. If you're on a budget you may have to compromise and go factory or keep saving for a custom Mauser build.
That said there are some beautiful factory Mausers now available: MAUSER 98

 

[PostmanPat]

Something like this..............(Yes, I should have bought it)

T

Sold: Thread 'Borden Timberline - Full Custom 7x57 - REDUCED'

Jun 20, 2024

Following on from the article in Shooting Times yesterday, I feel that it might be generate some interest to repost the sale with enhanced offering and reduced price
As part of the "wind down" of my stalking kit, I wish to sell my 'Ronin' built custom 7x57 rifle
The spec is as follows:
Bespoke CM Borden Timberline action, CM fluted bolt.
LW CM Barrel 8.5 twist 22" Medium sporter profile threaded for moderator.
Hand built Rigby Pattern stock - exhibition quality walnut with ebony end cap, and red recoil pad, built and fitted by Gary Cane.
Talley - 30mm custom scope rings
Bottom metal...

• Tikka 260
• Replies: 51
• Forum: Firearms

• 
• 

I got in touch to try and do jus that but unfortunately seems like it is gone for good!

 

[PostmanPat]

Surely you are talking about massively different amounts of cash?

what’s your actual budget? S & L are one of the best and most accurate factory rifles available-a true lifetime gun. The custom route will be much, much more expensive than that surely? Aren’t Mayfair Mauser actions 4k+ on their own, then barrel etc etc. a properly done stock with a very high grade blank could be huge money!

The PH on here will be far the cheapest way to achieve what you’d like. It looks a lovely rifle…wouldn’t you go an shoot it, see how accurate it is and decide. It’ll certainly be far more accurate than anyone reasonably needs for stalking!

No, fairly similar amounts of cash. They may well be but I wouldn't be buying a £4k Mayfair action. FN Mauser action - circa £800, Pheonix or similar match barrel £1100, Bottom metal £300 - poss additional high end trigger £300 - so circa £2500 plus stock (about the same for the Shultz) - obv the Shultz does come with a stock for that money so you can use it right away - and then have a spare stock. Also, there are some fees for the gunsmith on top of this to consider. But it is not worlds apart - and as the build takes a bit of time you wouldn't necessarily have to stump up every penny in one go.

TBH I have never shot a Mauser 98 so I don't truly know how much I would enjoy it. I have cycled/dry fired a friend's Rigby - but it is in an Africa calibre so no opportunity to shoot it over here atm. I suspect that the S&L does trump it for utility - but the 98 has some romantic appeal.

 

[PostmanPat]

Either would serve you well for the duration of ownership. Personally, I prefer the S&L action and bolt throw over that of a FN Mauser, but that's me not you. Whereas a Mauser build presumably by a British Riflesmith will be unique, custom made to your requirements and so support our UK gun trade. If money is not an object then follow your heart. If you're on a budget you may have to compromise and go factory or keep saving for a custom Mauser build.
That said there are some beautiful factory Mausers now available: MAUSER 98

They are perfect but they are literally the same thing as the Rigby Highland Stalker (I prefer the Rigby stock pattern too) - price the same, come from the same factory - if I felt like dropping £15k I would! - but I am looking more at £2.5 to £3k ish initial outlay - they the re-stocking cost later (which I will have a hand in myself)

 

[Navarone]

No, fairly similar amounts of cash. They may well be but I wouldn't be buying a £4k Mayfair action. FN Mauser action - circa £800, Pheonix or similar match barrel £1100, Bottom metal £300 - poss additional high end trigger £300 - so circa £2500 plus stock (about the same for the Shultz) - obv the Shultz does come with a stock for that money so you can use it right away - and then have a spare stock. Also, there are some fees for the gunsmith on top of this to consider. But it is not worlds apart - and as the build takes a bit of time you wouldn't necessarily have to stump up every penny in one go.

TBH I have never shot a Mauser 98 so I don't truly know how much I would enjoy it. I have cycled/dry fired a friend's Rigby - but it is in an Africa calibre so no opportunity to shoot it over here atm. I suspect that the S&L does trump it for utility - but the 98 has some romantic appeal.

Ahh ok I see, understood.

I think having the rifle built from scratch is a nice thing but then again the fit and finish on S & L is very very good.

I think heart is custom build, head is s & l. If you are going s and l I’d not bother with a custom stock I’d just ring Steve at Ivythorn and buy the highest grade walnut they do and get a few options and choose one you like, you can always add a brass cap/ebony foreend and a London best pad to get the look. Some of their walnut is lovely…

S and L is also a switch barrel system which might or might not mean something to
You?

 

[PostmanPat]

Thanks. I have spoken to Steve - great chap in case anyone reading this is thinking of buying an S&L too, couldn't recommend him enough. I will still re-stock at some point. Not because the wood isn't good enough from Shultz, but because my heart wants an English pattern stock, with a few custom touches I have in mind. The silver's pad, ebony end cap, Prince of Wales grip, brass oval etc certainly being part of it. I will probably retro fit iron sights at some point, for no good reason.

I also did speak to the chap that has that PH for sale as looks wise it certainly ticks the box, and I have the slot, the challenge is the bit I mentioned about my only experience with a second hand rifle and unfortunately it seems there is not an opportunity to shoot it before purchasing it. Value for money looks excellent, but I don't think I can get over the dread of having another epic chasing around issues. Whatever I buy - it will be a rifle that is used a lot.

The S&L switch barrel does hold some appeal - especially if I do end up stocking it myself as it will then certainly become a forever rifle/heirloom for the lad in time. And going to Africa with it one day would be delicious. It's not the deciding factor though

 

[Cottis]

I also would not under circumstance buy a second hand centre fire rifle that I could not shoot myself or at least see first hand proof of it producing the performance I would want.

I have no useful info to give on the custom route but I do own 2 S&L rifles and they are by far and away the best factory rifles I own and also the best I have used in comparison to friends etc. The stocks are obviously a personal preference but I mean in terms of the finish of the action and the blueing, the bolts and the insanely well prepped barrels that shoot soooooo well, it is hard to look beyond them for bang for buck value off the shelf. They do not feel like vanilla shelf rifles.

Although I do not utilise the switch barrel systems for cartridge changes, I do massively appreciate the ease of cleaning that this system provides and how easy it is to access the chamber. One of my Schultz rifles I shoot north of 1000 rounds a year through, so I feel able to talk about the faultless performance. On the subject of switch barrels, these rifles continue to hold surprisingly sound zero even when the barrels are removed, cleaned and reinstalled. I know some out and out supposed purists dislike the slide and lock mounts, but they too are hugely repeatable and never fail. They are truly well put together guns. I too got both of mine from Steve at Ivythorn. Happy to raise a glass to his service levels as well.

 

[308rws]

Steve has a .308 Victory with a brand new barrel for sale. Or, there’s a William Evans S&L on Guntrader which you could get rebarreled.

 

[PostmanPat]

Steve has a .308 Victory with a brand new barrel for sale. Or, there’s a William Evans S&L on Guntrader which you could get rebarreled.

Thanks. Steve's one is top of the list. I did speak to William Evans originally - it is a great deal and I actually prefer that shape stock, but again, it can't be fired before purchase and same issue as the Rigby for me

 

[Ronin]

Something like this..............(Yes, I should have bought it)

T

Sold: Thread 'Borden Timberline - Full Custom 7x57 - REDUCED'

Jun 20, 2024

Following on from the article in Shooting Times yesterday, I feel that it might be generate some interest to repost the sale with enhanced offering and reduced price
As part of the "wind down" of my stalking kit, I wish to sell my 'Ronin' built custom 7x57 rifle
The spec is as follows:
Bespoke CM Borden Timberline action, CM fluted bolt.
LW CM Barrel 8.5 twist 22" Medium sporter profile threaded for moderator.
Hand built Rigby Pattern stock - exhibition quality walnut with ebony end cap, and red recoil pad, built and fitted by Gary Cane.
Talley - 30mm custom scope rings
Bottom metal...

• Tikka 260
• Replies: 51
• Forum: Firearms

• 
• 

You should

I was tempted to buy it back too

 

[Keith Edmunds]

You should

I was tempted to buy it back too

Seriously......I have very few regrets in life............................that one is on the list


EDIT....Maybe you'll have to make me a Mk 2 one day

 

[Ronin]

FN 98 would be my choice

 

[PostmanPat]

FN 98 would be my choice

It would be great to hear your thoughts on the cost of building something similar on an FN 98. If my estimates above are on the money

 

[Ronin]

I think the parts / component prices are about right though getting an action from Mayfair may prove problematic

I’m still waiting on enquiries I made several years ago when I was asked to quote for a build in 275 Rigby using one of their actions

There is a German company who also manufacture 98 receivers - begins with P but can’t recall their exact name

You would also need to factor in finishing and profit margin for the builder

You are unlikely to get a blacked and finished barrelled action / trigger complete without adding another 1 to 2 thousand

Judging the prices of what I see used rofles are being advertised at from some “named” builders who can commend their price due to popularity

Factor in 2-3 k for a decent piece of wood and the stockers fees too

If you have the money

Buy a genuine Mauser 98 either new or used and travel to view it

They come up in Europe more than here by the way (used)

I’ve realised as I type I’m spending your money - but that is what I would do if I were in the market for a classic stalking rifle with a decent budget

The 7x57 rifle I built using the Borden action was a one off using a Chromoly Timberline action - unique and never to be repeated.

 

[Dave Scott]

I think the parts / component prices are about right though getting an action from Mayfair may prove problematic

I’m still waiting on enquiries I made several years ago when I was asked to quote for a build in 275 Rigby using one of their actions

There is a German company who also manufacture 98 receivers - begins with P but can’t recall their exact name

You would also need to factor in finishing and profit margin for the builder

You are unlikely to get a blacked and finished barrelled action / trigger complete without adding another 1 to 2 thousand

Judging the prices of what I see used rofles are being advertised at from some “named” builders who can commend their price due to popularity

Factor in 2-3 k for a decent piece of wood and the stockers fees too

If you have the money

Buy a genuine Mauser 98 either new or used and travel to view it

They come up in Europe more than here by the way (used)

I’ve realised as I type I’m spending your money - but that is what I would do if I were in the market for a classic stalking rifle with a decent budget

The 7x57 rifle I built using the Borden action was a one off using a Chromoly Timberline action - unique and never to be repeated.

Prechtl is the name you are searching for. They make ’98 actions and build rifles.

 

[Scipio]

I think the parts / component prices are about right though getting an action from Mayfair may prove problematic

I’m still waiting on enquiries I made several years ago when I was asked to quote for a build in 275 Rigby using one of their actions

There is a German company who also manufacture 98 receivers - begins with P but can’t recall their exact name

You would also need to factor in finishing and profit margin for the builder

You are unlikely to get a blacked and finished barrelled action / trigger complete without adding another 1 to 2 thousand

Judging the prices of what I see used rofles are being advertised at from some “named” builders who can commend their price due to popularity

Factor in 2-3 k for a decent piece of wood and the stockers fees too

If you have the money

Buy a genuine Mauser 98 either new or used and travel to view it

They come up in Europe more than here by the way (used)

I’ve realised as I type I’m spending your money - but that is what I would do if I were in the market for a classic stalking rifle with a decent budget

The 7x57 rifle I built using the Borden action was a one off using a Chromoly Timberline action - unique and never to be repeated.

Good post, and gunfinder.de might be a good place to start looking. But i believe there several such online trading sites for (especially hunting) arms in Germany.
Perhaps some of our DE based members, like for example @Bavarianbrit , will be able to contribute more about where it might be best to look. Good luck!

 

[Heym SR20]

I have some experience of both. The Shultz and Larsen is a good rifle. They shoot well, and accurate, crisp trigger etc. Three round box magazine, not a fan of, and their proprietary scope mounts are a bit sci. Fi.

I have a 1974 .275 Rigby that is built on the commercial FN Action. A mid weight 22” barrel with Front sight, a barrel band and express rear sight with a one piece Redfield / Leupold swing off mount originally fitted with a 4x36 scope. Trigger is a Timney or Timney style with a side safety. Stock is a good tiger stripped walnut with a monte carlo combe. It’s got the Rigbt name on the barrel and on the full length leather case and was built for the Father of a very close friend of mine. It is a very nice rifle to be looking after and to use.

But truth be told very similar rifles using a commercial FN or one the older military mauser actions, or an original commercial mauser action will all make very good rifles. How well they shoot is really a function of the barrel and then how well its fitted to the action. Fit and feel of the action is really again a function of its previous life and how well put together. I would suggest a commercial FN action from 1960’s onwards is probably a lot better than using a k98 made sometime in and around WW2 by convict labour.

Stock will be a function of the wood chosen and whoever builds it. These days far far too much emphasis is on a) prettiness of the wood and b) use of bedding compounds and free floating rather than properly inetting the action and barrel into a piece of wood that has good strong straight grain that flows through the hand and fore end. A bit of figure in the butt end is nice, but for beauty follows function.

There a good few rifles on the market build by much lesser known makers that will cost you about £1,000 plus or minus a bit. For example @Edinburgh Rifles has a very nice 7x57 on an early Mauser action - beautifully built but without a name. It’s been drilled and tapped for scope bases so has lost any collector value, and chances are you will want to stick a scope on any how. If it carried a Rigby label it could make £2,000 at an auction - perhaps a bit more but probably a bit less. But it doesn’t.

Will it shoot as well as a Shultz and Larsen with a polymer stock of bipod. Perhaps not a clover leaf. I was with a friend yesterday shooting his 120 year old Mauser with open sights, sitting off knees. It shot close enough to point of aim that we went hunting. If the doe he saw had identified itself as a buck it would have dead for certain.