So...do you enjoying killing?

CarlW

Well-Known Member
In a 4 man tracker team the guy out front pretends he can see the spore

The guy behind is supposedly in charge but in reality is just chugging the beers

Whilst the 2 flanker are moaning coz their beers are getting chugged
...all the while saying to one another 'so when do you reckon those dumb white mutherf'kkers will work out that we're just makin' this sh1t up...?' :p...
 

kenbro

Well-Known Member
Hi Ken,

So now we're throwing another variable in:

Trophy vs meat; guided vs self-guided; and - the new one - frequent vs infrequent.

How frequently does someone need to go out in order to qualify as a hunter? What about the struggling paramedic or shop-worker who saves up to go on an outing once or twice a year with someone like Sikamalc to guide them after a doe? Are they not hunters?

Kind regards,

Carl
Too many imponderables,
I give up.
Ken.
 
What a reassuring series of opinions. In recent years I've noticed a macho and apparently insensitive element creeping into our sport, a few people who seem to have no respect for the quarry or the possible consequences of their actions. I'm sure ignorance is often a factor but that is not an excuse. It is not'soft' to admit to having a conscience and people who question what they are doing and take the responsibility for what they do seriously will only enhance our sport. Keep it up Shep.
 

Sheprador1973

Well-Known Member
What a reassuring series of opinions. In recent years I've noticed a macho and apparently insensitive element creeping into our sport, a few people who seem to have no respect for the quarry or the possible consequences of their actions. I'm sure ignorance is often a factor but that is not an excuse. It is not'soft' to admit to having a conscience and people who question what they are doing and take the responsibility for what they do seriously will only enhance our sport. Keep it up Shep.
Thanks for your contribution mate...well said. Still a touch of testosterone flying around occasionally but thats cool. Really interesting thread that Im now very glad I started despite serious reservations. Lots of food for thought. A mention a while back (apologies to the poster's ID) about there being a lot of autobiographies going on. But thats what makes this site so great IMHO. How else are us newcomers to learn? Except from you...:)
 

Sheprador1973

Well-Known Member
I have said it before and I know it controversial, but I head shoot because I dont like to see deer run. It's not so bad as it would stop me shooting one in he boiler house if I had too but it definitely is less enjoyable for me than a instant drop head shot. I have let many deer walk because a head shot was not available and yes I have screwed up once but frankly for other reasons than shot placement.

RE trophy hunters? Its not for me but its hunting for AN other reason so we as a community should be more respectful. I am also not one for breading 10,000 pheasants and having them pushed into the air in front of me so I can shoot 30 and take just two home, but again I fully support Pheasant shoots and respect the environmental benefits they bring

I know plenty of Stalkers who shoot the deer than take them straight to the game dealer? Is this any better or worse than trophy hunting?

Again not reely for me (never been to a game dealer) but I can respect and support my fellow hunters for their version of what they want to do because at the end of the day a dead deer is one more off the UK environmentally driven cull list.
Interesting point Mark. Perhaps the nature of the shot ( distance, point of aim etc) also makes a difference to how some of us feel about that 'moment'? Must admit Im in agreement, and with my inexperience its not the greatest feeling seeing a deer run after being shot. To my brain it translates as 'It hasn't died instantly...I have failed'. I'd like to ideally get to a stage where my near 3000 fps projectile kills stone dead within a micro second and I can rest assured I have caused NO suffering. I know a mistake is going to come and Im fairly prepared for that outcome should it arise, but in the meantime I guess Im ok with killing (with very good reason) without suffering. Maybe I should have titled the thread 'So...do you enjoy suffering?' ;) Might have saved us all a lot of time! No regrets though...has been a great read with some fantastic contributions. ATB
 

sikamalc

Administrator
Site Staff
98% that stalk/hunt with me are guided by either myself or one of my guides, whether its simply for meat or trophy. I suppose if its a trophy such as an outstanding Roe Buck its important that the client is guided. Otherwise they could take the wrong buck and of course will more than likely not know the ground.
I would say that again 99% of the English clients I have are just after a good day out, to stalk and hopefully grass a deer for meat. Either way its still hunting and taking a life, no matter whether its a good buck that is surplus and can be culled or a doe for the freezer.
 

Silvius

Well-Known Member
Humans are small group hunters. As creatures who in nature get a reasonable portion of their diet from hunting they are excited to "get one". Its natural and instinctive. As small group hunters humans also have a lot of empathy for each other. It is needed for good team work. This empathy in humans spills over to other creatures. I think it is impossible for a normal human not to feel compassion for the animal he has killed and to be sorry for its loss. I also get very excited in the moment of pulling the trigger as I am expecting my gain, which I can almost taste, yet fearing my loss.

So do I enjoy killing -yes. It is exciting (lets be honest and not bow the knee to fashionable sentiment). However I also do not enjoy the fact that a creature has died and that I have taken the wonder of life from it. Its a paradox that I feel it is best to be honest about at both ends. The moment you pull the trigger full of fear and desire and exult in relief and joy to see the animal kick out from a heart shot is so different from the moment you go forward and see it lying on the ground; such a wonderful creature and so dead and quietly put out an hand and touch it and feel sorry for its death.

To be a rounded human is to be both these things. To lack either side is not a strength. It comes from thinking too much and worrying what other people think too. We need to be happy with who we are -full humans.
 

kenbro

Well-Known Member
Humans are small group hunters. As creatures who in nature get a reasonable portion of their diet from hunting they are excited to "get one". Its natural and instinctive. As small group hunters humans also have a lot of empathy for each other. It is needed for good team work. This empathy in humans spills over to other creatures. I think it is impossible for a normal human not to feel compassion for the animal he has killed and to be sorry for its loss. I also get very excited in the moment of pulling the trigger as I am expecting my gain, which I can almost taste, yet fearing my loss.

So do I enjoy killing -yes. It is exciting (lets be honest and not bow the knee to fashionable sentiment). However I also do not enjoy the fact that a creature has died and that I have taken the wonder of life from it. Its a paradox that I feel it is best to be honest about at both ends. The moment you pull the trigger full of fear and desire and exult in relief and joy to see the animal kick out from a heart shot is so different from the moment you go forward and see it lying on the ground; such a wonderful creature and so dead and quietly put out an hand and touch it and feel sorry for its death.

To be a rounded human is to be both these things. To lack either side is not a strength. It comes from thinking too much and worrying what other people think too. We need to be happy with who we are -full humans.
Dead right Silvius. Think that sums it up perfectly. Does for me anyway.
Regards,Ken.
 

mchughcb

Well-Known Member
A really skilled
98% that stalk/hunt with me are guided by either myself or one of my guides, whether its simply for meat or trophy. I suppose if its a trophy such as an outstanding Roe Buck its important that the client is guided. Otherwise they could take the wrong buck and of course will more than likely not know the ground.
I would say that again 99% of the English clients I have are just after a good day out, to stalk and hopefully grass a deer for meat. Either way its still hunting and taking a life, no matter whether its a good buck that is surplus and can be culled or a doe for the freezer.
What percentage are just happy to get away from their wives for a while?
 

tarponhead

Well-Known Member
I find it really hard and need to have a good reason to pull the trigger - I have often watched when I could have fired and been happy with the decision. But as soon as I see an injured animal, one not ion great condition or vermin then I'm happy to shoot, knowing I will hit it, knowing its for a purpose. I'm not being noble about it - just a bit of humility in the field and taking my time to get it right. Where guides have rushed me, it hasn't always gone well - those ones I regret. I do like successful field craft - that feels great. Like killing though? I never have. I take the occasional trout for the pot, but I was practicing catch and release 40 years ago and will do so until I can't cast a fly or a spinner anymore.
 

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