So...do you enjoying killing?

Buckaroo8

Well-Known Member
We are all different my friend. I have never felt guilt but I constantly think about my actions and make sure that I haven't changed my mind. Many shooters give up the sport in old age. Not just because of health but because they change their mind about things that they have always believed in. Aging affects your brain and your body. I question my motives regularly but so far I have always come to the same conclusion. Hunting unendangered species is morally justifiable.
Good reply. I agree that people can change their opinions on things as they age. To me, hunting and killing for food feels so natural and instinctive that it is more morally acceptable to me than buying processed food. So I don’t ever even question myself, I just follow my instincts.
 

kenbro

Well-Known Member
My business spends over USD100,000 every year on wages for anti-poaching staff. That money comes from trophy hunters. Do you know anyone else who will give me that money?

Kind regards,

Carl
Carl,
We’re not talking about people shooting for trophies. If it’s legit. and some want to do it I don’t have a problem, (Never have and never will shoot for a trophy myself) but, surely trophy hunters must come into “My” category, people who admit to liking to shoot soft targets.
The ones that don’t like killing things might go home empty handed, and having enjoyed them selve’s, but not as much as if they’d killed something. And they can’t wait for the next outing and a chance to kill something. And when they do, they try and reconcile it by saying prayers, chanting or feeding it grass. Just to make themselves feel better.
Ken
 

Lateral

Well-Known Member
My business spends over USD100,000 every year on wages for anti-poaching staff. That money comes from trophy hunters. Do you know anyone else who will give me that money?

Kind regards,

Carl
In the context of the thread, that is a very different question.

Would the attitude of "trophy hunters", be different, in as much as would they enjoy the killing more so, because their only concern is the size of the trophy ? You are probably in a much better position to comment !
 

Pedro

Well-Known Member
I think that to hunt (in it's general meaning, not chasing foxes) is something that in previous centuries was necessary to survive. Like many things, what we need to do in evolutionary terms becomes enjoyable. Obvious other examples include eating, sex, bringing up kids and so on. That enjoyment prompts us to do it. At the same time, again, we have developed a conscience about taking life. This, too I think is an evolutionary thing. If we, centuries ago enjoyed hunting that much that we did it to the extent that the prey animals disappeared, then the results would be bad. Consequently it's only right and proper that those things surrounding the "hunt" are enjoyable, but the actual taking of life is not.

Of course things go wrong. I expect we all know people who don't give a damn about their prey. The idiot who, without a clear shot would wound an animal rather than not shoot it, those that buy big bag days shooting birds where they shoot that many at ranges where they can't miss, they simply can't remember any shot and the culling of the bison in North America to give an even bigger example, where they were generally left to rot in their millions. Another way things can go wrong is where too much sensitivity is shown, so that it becomes abhorrent to have anything to do with harvesting animals for food. As omnivores, it is simply natural we should eat meat and vegetables/fruit.

So, to enjoy the feeling of a successful outing and to provide food for the table, but at the same time feeling regret at the loss of life is, in my view, totally normal and part of being human.
 

dodgyknees

Well-Known Member
Those of you that are in some way affected emotionally by shooting an animal, maybe take a moment to reflect on the rest of your lives, in a day-to-day sense. Consider the contents of your supermarket trolley, the fast food snacks, the packet of scratchings at the pub... definitely the kebab on the way home after a few jars.

Its been an interesting thread. I watch some programs where people are overcome by their emotions after shooting an elk or in the case of the recent Meateater episode, a caribou. In the moment that I watched the reaction of the shooter, I thought to myself "you didn't get that fat from eating a hunter gatherer diet mate".

I come back to the question that I asked the OP earlier, 99% of those that express some kind of regret with regards to killing a deer feel absolutely bugger all when it comes to cleaning a rat out of a trap.

And it is the exact same lack of emotional attachment to the rat that allows most normal people to buy stuff from the supermarket, "food" that is manufactured using animal ingredients sourced from all sorts of highly questionable agricultural and manufacturing practices. It does feel a little bit sanctimonious or even hypocritical to make a show of being respectful to the prey animal that you just shot, when after a long day on the hill you call in at the service station and buy a cheap pie or Wimpy burger.

Because at the end of the day if the animal is not in your crosshairs, for the most part you are not even thinking about what's in your meal. The few of you on here that supply animals into the meat trade know what I mean, where you live the rules and regulations that govern farm animal welfare are light years ahead of the countries where much of what goes into what you buy in Sainsburys is actually produced. Yet a UK abattoir is still not a nice place for an animal to meet its end.

It is an interesting exercise bringing up a young sons in today's world, where everything we do is seemingly overcast by a determined effort by a "politically correct" minority to question our ethics, our very moral fibre, to change us into some kind of monosexual hypernice opinionless clone. Our primary objective as parents is not to cynically rail against the reality of modern society, creating two little bigots in the image of the numerous pathetic white male, lower middle class bigots we already have enough of in our society, thank you very much.

Educating our sons where their food comes from and how it is produced is an essential element of what we do as a family. We are lucky in that we produce all our own meat products, but then again we worked hard to be able to enable that. When we step outside our self-imposed rules, willfully breaking them, there's always a discussion. And a guilt trip like it or not!

Whether we shoot a meat animal, a pest animal, trap vermin or selectively euthanise animals for not meeting a standard, we try our best to do it right. The young fellas were understandably affected by it at first, culling young goats in particular. But they know why we do it. There's no drama, no tears, no reluctance or sadness. Its just a fact of life. The deer are edible, they need controlling, we like eating them, we have a means of converting them into food. Easy.

Do we enjoy the killing part? Its a non-issue. Just one small step in a long process, from the rain and sun making the grass grow, to the creation of protein from vegetable matter, to the application of heat to meat to produce the perfect meal. If you don't "like" the killing part, take a moment to reflect on all the other people you have paid to do it on your behalf, for example through the £9.99 you just spent at Waitrose on that microwave ready Chicken Kiev.
 

mchughcb

Well-Known Member
Agree its a non issue for me. And then somebody brought up killing associated with sexual deviancy. Makes me now start to wonder what people are doing out there when im focussing on thehunt.
 

kenbro

Well-Known Member
Agree its a non issue for me. And then somebody brought up killing associated with sexual deviancy. Makes me now start to wonder what people are doing out there when im focussing on thehunt.
Ha, mchughcb, you’re the second person to call for the thread to get back on track. Tehe.
Ken.
 

Chasey

Well-Known Member
I have said it before and I know it controversial, but I head shoot because I dont like to see deer run. It's not so bad as it would stop me shooting one in he boiler house if I had too but it definitely is less enjoyable for me than a instant drop head shot. I have let many deer walk because a head shot was not available and yes I have screwed up once but frankly for other reasons than shot placement.

RE trophy hunters? Its not for me but its hunting for AN other reason so we as a community should be more respectful. I am also not one for breading 10,000 pheasants and having them pushed into the air in front of me so I can shoot 30 and take just two home, but again I fully support Pheasant shoots and respect the environmental benefits they bring

I know plenty of Stalkers who shoot the deer than take them straight to the game dealer? Is this any better or worse than trophy hunting?

Again not reely for me (never been to a game dealer) but I can respect and support my fellow hunters for their version of what they want to do because at the end of the day a dead deer is one more off the UK environmentally driven cull list.
 

CarlW

Well-Known Member
In the context of the thread, that is a very different question.

Would the attitude of "trophy hunters", be different, in as much as would they enjoy the killing more so, because their only concern is the size of the trophy ? You are probably in a much better position to comment !
Hi Lateral,

See my post #71.

The ones I know feel no differently about the act of killing from any other kind of hunter: some cry about it, some don't give a toss, and most sit somewhere between the two.

Meat-hunting is sometimes a fiction many of us hide behind in order to justify our love of hunting itself. Our kill is 'legitimate' because we are feeding ourselves (even though I know of very few stalkers or hunters whose family eats even a tenth of their cull themselves). I do the same myself. That's fine. But let's not fragment the hunting community by dismissing types of hunting that we don't personally enjoy.

Kind regards,

Carl
 

CarlW

Well-Known Member
I have said it before and I know it controversial, but I head shoot because I dont like to see deer run. It's not so bad as it would stop me shooting one in he boiler house if I had too but it definitely is less enjoyable for me than a instant drop head shot. I have let many deer walk because a head shot was not available and yes I have screwed up once but frankly for other reasons than shot placement.

RE trophy hunters? Its not for me but its hunting for AN other reason so we as a community should be more respectful. I am also not one for breading 10,000 pheasants and having them pushed into the air in front of me so I can shoot 30 and take just two home, but again I fully support Pheasant shoots and respect the environmental benefits they bring

I know plenty of Stalkers who shoot the deer than take them straight to the game dealer? Is this any better or worse than trophy hunting?

Again not reely for me (never been to a game dealer) but I can respect and support my fellow hunters for their version of what they want to do because at the end of the day a dead deer is one more off the UK environmentally driven cull list.
We made the same point at exactly the same time! You must be a genius too...
 

Lateral

Well-Known Member
I thought the thread was purely about a hunters feelings towards the kill ?
Hi Lateral,

See my post #71.

The ones I know feel no differently about the act of killing from any other kind of hunter: some cry about it, some don't give a toss, and most sit somewhere between the two.

Meat-hunting is sometimes a fiction many of us hide behind in order to justify our love of hunting itself. Our kill is 'legitimate' because we are feeding ourselves (even though I know of very few stalkers or hunters whose family eats even a tenth of their cull themselves). I do the same myself. That's fine. But let's not fragment the hunting community by dismissing types of hunting that we don't personally enjoy.

Kind regards,

Carl
I'm not dismissing anything. There's a place for everything, but we've been talking about a hunters feelings towards the kill, and it's not unreasonable to look at all aspects.

I fully appreciate the contribution trophy hunters make towards animal conservation, and the prevention of poaching, I'm just curious to know if these hunters have a different mindset, to your average deerstalker, and in your experience, they don't !
 

CarlW

Well-Known Member
I thought the thread was purely about a hunters feelings towards the kill ?


I'm not dismissing anything. There's a place for everything, but we've been talking about a hunters feelings towards the kill, and it's not unreasonable to look at all aspects.

I fully appreciate the contribution trophy hunters make towards animal conservation, and the prevention of poaching, I'm just curious to know if these hunters have a different mindset, to your average deerstalker, and in your experience, they don't !
Sorry if I came across as defensive. However, we had already addressed trophy hunters a hundred posts earlier in the thread. Along with foxhunters, game-shooters, and Americans generally, I do notice that they (we) are often one of the first sub-groups to be sneered at by those peseudo-primeval hunters seeking to assuage their consciences and - in some cases - ingratiate themselves with the non-shooting public by distancing themselves from us. We're all in this together...and although I apologise in advance...I fully intend to get indignant every time it comes up...:p.
 

sikamalc

Administrator
Site Staff
Not sure what all this so called trophy hunting is all about really. Whether you cull a doe or poor buck/stag against a mature buck or stag, they are still hunted and stalked in much the same way.
I have shot in Africa, taking reasonable heads, but then what do you class as a trophy out there? There is little difference between a 21 inch southern Impala and a 24 inch southern Impala. But the income generated doe protect and prevent poaching, and without this income the wildlife will suffer. Its the same where ever you hunt in nearly all countries.
Killing a gold medal Roe buck in a wood in the UK is no different to killing any other animal in my opinion. It does however prove to a certain extent that the deer and area have probably been managed well to produce such class heads. I shot one Bronze medal Buck last year with a client, several others were taken but due to the long dry spell they didn't attain the weight they usually do, this included a 7 point Buck.
Hopefully I manage my Roe population reasonably well, and that allows for me to take clients who just want to hunt for a modest buck, and sometimes , some years the odd client who wants something really nice to make a special memory of.
Personally I have over all these years shot one Gold medal Muntjac, and nothing else of anywhere near medal quality to my own rifle.

No matter if its trophy or not they are all hunted and shot the same, it is as I have said before the upmost importance that the hunter shows respect for what they hunt at all times.
 

The fourth Horseman

Well-Known Member
Slightly off piste I know but my pet hate is the hunter who does not eat at least some of the prey he kills. I have a neighbouring head keeper who does not eat venison or any other game but eats an awful lot of takeaways smothered in black bean sauce. He shoots only the biggest Fallow bucks because they fetch more pennies, and he wonders why I don't talk to him. If only I was 20 yrs younger and not worried about my fac I think we might have quite an argument.
:evil:
 

mchughcb

Well-Known Member
He obviously can't cook chinese then. Last deer i took was to my vietnamese doctor who cooked it vietnamese style. He keeps asking when am i getting the next one.
 

Bigboab29

Well-Known Member
I enjoy stalking, I enjoy being successful at it and returning with a carcass, so by proxy I guess that means I enjoy killing, doesn't mean I'm a fruitcake who gets a kick out of killing things and making things suffer, everything is treated with the respect it deserves. If killing things upsets people so much they need to find another hobby.
 

foxdropper

Well-Known Member
Can’t be arsed to drag through whole thread but for me age has played a huge part in the answer .When I was younger big bags and several carcasses in the chiller were top priority and killing was as easy as breathing .The older I got ,the more I did ,being in touch with a wider group of enthusiasts ,the easier it became to switch off completely ,concentrating on doing the job right rather than ever thinking about why .Now in my 50s It means less and less each year having shot enough deer to last a lifetime .Now it’s about selection and culling where appropriate .I went through a stage earlier in life where no in season deer was safe regardless of whether it was a cull or not .I would now rather see my son grass a beast than pull the trigger myself and try to install a value on life rather than just a target .He has turned down several shots to his credit ,shots I would have taken at his age ,not dangerous but just to watch rather than kill .
Someone mentioned thermal and I for one think it’s a fantastic breakthrough for stalking especially in woodland .No one is forced to take the shot nor is a good look through the bins thereafter frowned on .
Steel sights were once thought sporting lol.
Killing is a necessary byproduct of our urge to be hunters ,there’s no shame if carried out competently .
 

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