So you want a Blaser look at this first.

Thar

Well-Known Member
#1
This is something I picked up off another non UK site.

"Just thought some might like to see a few pics of the Blaser 93 , sorry to say that its NOT complete , but it shows the important bits like the bolt and locking splines etc .

This is just pics of one incident , as far as I know there has been at least 3 , may be more , I just know enough to steer WELL clear of it .

There are far better designed and made rifles to EVER bother with this , just NOT worth IT ."

I beleive that they are caused by a primer being pierced , and the gas flowing back and melting a plastic disc that cams the locking fingers/splines into battery , then the bolt unlocks REAL quick , into your face .








Are you sure you still want a Blaser?

Best rgds

Thar
 

geoshot

Well-Known Member
#2
Hi there Thar,

I noticed this after replying to you in "classifieds" so I'll copy my reply to save other users from the bother of going there:-

Thar,
At least your post includes pics, but it still rehashes an OLD story.
A couple of early Blasers let go when a metal pin broke following corrosion, in later models this has been replaced by a stainless pin.
I checked my manual and as far as I can see there is no pastic disc which can be burnt through by a primer. Believe me the Germans are very thorough on stuff like that, if it isn't in the drawings it isn't in the rifle.
I don't know if you are in the NRA or not, but if you are, read their latest journal. After a few incidents involving "normal" actioned rifles with good old homeloading the suspect, Bisley are discussing how to police reloaders. An overhot load will blow any rifle apart and/or bits of it into your face (and I'm prepared to bet that's what happened in those awful pics, the bits suggest a breech explosion too), one incident and a couple of rumours aren't enough to write off anything (unless it's concorde).
Thanks anyway, but I'm used to the luddite approach by now.
The last guy who tried it had a miss-fire on the range in his conventional rifle using a friend's homeload (they advise against that in most rifle courses and the DSC1 cos it's stupid), then proceeded to ignore any missfire procedure I know of, and immediately extracted the problem round and put it in a box with all his fresh ammo, about 180rds worth, but he still felt up to criticising my rifle choice on safety grounds!!!
I'm not saying for a moment that your are the same kind of muppet, but as we say to the antis, it's not the rifle at fault, it's usually the user.

And I'll add;

You must have something under your skin about Blaser rifles mate.
Unauthenticated posts from a US website aren't proof of anything, and as I said above, I bet that poor guy was a homeloader who pushed the limits a bit too far and paid an awful price for it, but that wasn't the rifle's fault, it was his. Those bits from the breech and bolt assemblies look like they were blown apart forcibly in situ, the locking arms are still out on the bolt and one of them was ripped off. Surely if the locking mechanism had failed because of the mysterious "burning of a bit of plastic", it would have blown back almost intact, much like the breech assembly in an automatic rifle does when the sears retract, and the locking mechanism wouldn't have ripped apart.
3 million plus Blasers sold and used in Europe alone and the best the nay-sayers can come up with is a couple of unsubstantiated rumours "their mates" heard, and some pics from a US website?
If the rifles were so unreliable, Blaser would be out of business, one justifiable claim in the USA could bankcrupt any firearms company no matter how big (BP lost billions over Texas City and are still paying) and they wouldn't be able to sell a pop gun anywhere.
Thanks all the same for the advice, but I'll wait until I hear of a product recall before I start to worry.
 

Thar

Well-Known Member
#3
Hi Geoshot

I thought this post might draw a bit of incoming from irate Blaser owners. :lol: I notice how quick you have been to try and ridicule it. :oops:

The information did not come from a US site at all. ;)

I am well aware of the NRA concerns regarding homeloading, it has been suggested that they might be making a fuss so they can bring in an accredited course that you would have to pass before you could reload. Of cause they would run this course and make money from it. Whether that would be there real intention I couldn’t possibly say. ;)

The event happened in Germany and was investigated by the German equivalent of our proof house. Their conclusion was yes the owner did do something stupid home loading and this lead to the failure of the rifle. (This was not a one off event other rifles have failed) In response to this Blaser did not do a product recall they redesigned there rifles and ones made after September 2002 had as follows:-

Dual Ball Detents (CF body only)
Longer Body –
There is more "meat" to the body due to the need for better tolerances when the bodies need to be polished.
There is a bolt safety feature that will not allow the bolt to come flying out if the bolt pin snaps. New laser engraved logos.
Serial numbers starting at 2001.
The bolt is longer to distribute wear better.

Now you may say serves him right, it was not the rifles fault, but Blaser have admitted a degree of blame by changing the design have they not. You may say that you would never make a mistake when reloading but remember the following:-

“The Man who never made a mistake never made anything”

“To eer is to be human”

“Nobody is perfect, are you nobody?”


My point is if I did do something stupid or something went wrong I do not want the bolt to be the weakest link, I would want the barrel to blow, you might loose a finger or at worse a hand :eek: but not half your head and your eye :cry: as the bolt fly’s back. I would rather a rifle fail as below.

At the end of the day people have the information and can make there own choice, if you do not like me bringing this to the site then I am sorry but I will not let that stop me. I posted it twice because after posting it in the classified section I realised that was not the proper place for this post. If you really must have a Blaser then get one made after September 2002.

Best rgds

B-b
 

270TOMMY

Well-Known Member
#4
evening thar/stalkers i was in germany/bavaria last year and a stalker suffered the same problem as the guy who was also shooting a sauer maybe there is a problem with this make of rifle?
 

geoshot

Well-Known Member
#7
Hi Thar,

Yep I was pretty riled at the time I read your post, sorry I assumed it was a US site that you used, you did actually say non-UK, but the point is the same, just cos its on the web doesn't mean its true, "doing a wiki" now means making it up according to my nephew.
Just to clarify on a couple of points:
I wouldn't wish what happened to that dude on anyone - no way do I think "he deserved it", that's your interpretation of what I wrote and says more about you than me.
Bad homeloading blows more rifles apart than bad rifle design, and I can understand the NRA wanting people to prove competency, safer than letting them prove their incompetency, read their latest journal, they make a very good case for certifying homeloaders.
I don't homeload, because I don't need to, I don't think it's wrong just a bit unnecessary for most of us.
I don't unlike you seem to, think that differing opinions makes people stupid, just different.
My Blaser is brand new so hopefully no probs expected, and you yourself now admit that later rifles addressed the problems of the old models, so what's your beef with Blaser?
I make mistakes (even buying the Blaser wasn't no matter what you think), of course I'm human, I never claim perfection.
If your rifle were to suffer a breech explosion you just might get bits of it in your face, personally i would be pretty p*ssed at losing a hand as much as an eye.
I've nothing against you posting at all, you're post might make people think about the rifle they chose and that's a good thing. But post up to date stuff, not just scare stories and then you'll look honest not just someone with an axe to grind.
 
K

Kent

Guest
#8
mm, NRA, homeloads, sales of military surplus ammo? running courses?
Money, money, money- i can tell you there are quite a number of annoyed people with the NRA presently. Esspecially f class shooters !

I have seen the remains of a blown up sako that was used with that millitary rubbish the NRA are so keen on. we have enough enemies at our door without the NRA lending a hand - i also know of two rimfires that blew!
 

Thar

Well-Known Member
#9
geoshot said:
Hi Thar,

Yep I was pretty riled at the time I read your post, sorry I assumed it was a US site that you used, you did actually say non-UK, but the point is the same, just cos its on the web doesn't mean its true, "doing a wiki" now means making it up according to my nephew..
A non-UK site does not make it a US site, and even if it was a US site do you dismiss everything about firearms you read from the US, after all it is the biggest firearms market in the world by a mile. As for making false allegations about a major manufactures products on the web, well I would be very careful as I am sure Blaser’s legal department would come down on the poster and site owners like a ton of bricks. I see Tommy has had posted that he has seen such a failure of Blaser rifles in Germany, are you going to say he made it up? :( Just because these are words you don’t like to hear don’t shoot the messenger.) Yes you can post untruths on Wikipedia but they will not stay on for long before somebody challengers them.

Don’t take the criticism of your choice of rifle as a personal attack on yourself.

geoshot said:
Just to clarify on a couple of points:
I wouldn't wish what happened to that dude on anyone - no way do I think "he deserved it", that's your interpretation of what I wrote and says more about you than me...
So now you try to suggest that I wish ill on people when they make a mistake, are you sure you read my post? or have you ignored the content and in your red mist of anger because somebody dared to criticise your beloved Blaser and now wish to sling mud a me rather than be objective?

geoshot said:
I can understand the NRA wanting people to prove competency, safer than letting them prove their incompetency, read their latest journal, they make a very good case for certifying homeloaders.
I don't homeload, because I don't need to, I don't think it's wrong just a bit unnecessary for most of us..
So you don’t homeload but you think you are well enough informed for us to have to pass a test to be judged competent to do so. :eek: You also believe it is not necessary for most shooters to handload. As Kent has pointed out it is not just homeloads that can cause problems.

geoshot said:
I don't unlike you seem to, think that differing opinions makes people stupid, just different...
Were have I said you or anybody else is stupid? There you go again trying to discredit me personally.

geoshot said:
so what's your beef with Blaser?
...
IMHO they are overcomplicated, the only advantage they provide is a slightly quicker follow up shot, good for getting a lot of lead down range quickly (in a man’ op) but in the UK we generally like to make sure the first shot counts don’t we.

geoshot said:
If your rifle were to suffer a breech explosion you just might get bits of it in your face, personally i would be pretty p*ssed at losing a hand as much as an eye....
But what about half your head and your life?

geoshot said:
I've nothing against you posting at all, you're post might make people think about the rifle they chose and that's a good thing. But post up to date stuff, not just scare stories and then you'll look honest not just someone with an axe to grind.
I am honest and try to be objective also, are you trying to suggest that I am not? Was it not me that posted which model of rifle failed? Scare stories? I only told the truth not stories, just because you don’t like the truth does not make it untrue. If you are happy with your Blaser then fine I am not here to convince you to change, it is just offer the opinion that I do not think they are the best rifle out there.

Rgds

Thar
 

Thar

Well-Known Member
#10
Re: B

Blaser3006 said:
Hi thar

you must have known this would provoke a response from me.

However it's old news, I don't know what your axe is with Blaser but ho hum.

perhaps folks would like to take a look at this link, it's quite informative;

http://www.testfakta.se/Article.aspx?a=16350


Gerry
Hi Gerry

Was Geoshot around when we last ran this one up the flag pole?

Bloody glad I have got a Howa after looking at them tests and only a 1/3 the price of a Blaser. :lol: :evil:

But credit were it is due looks like they made a better job second time around. Oh well to quote myself. "The man who never made a mistake never made anything". :D :D :D

Best rgds

B-b
 

Blaser3006

Well-Known Member
#11
Hi Thar

Not sure if Geoshot was around last time this one ran up the flag pole?

I would also agree that Howa is an excellent choice of rifle and although I don't own one it has been on the list of rifles that were considered for purchase. It was just that I had a bit more cash kicking around at the time and fancied one of them straight pull new fangled thingies, I must admit I was really disappointed when it worked though.

Long live Blaser :D :D :D


Cheers, Gerry
 

geoshot

Well-Known Member
#12
Hi Thar and Blaser 3006,

I probably wasn't around on this site when Thar first ran "this one up the pole", and to be honest I think, as I said somewhere else on this site, that if I had read more of the anti-blaser posts I might have reconsidered when I bought the R93 and missed out on a great rifle, it does all I need it too and safely too :D
Sorry to see you were so miffed by some of my points Thar, I've read plenty of your other posts and find them fair and informative, so was surprised to be called a nobody and accused of saying that poor guy deserved what he got, hence my "clarifications".
Let's leave it at that shall we? And agree to disagree and all that guff on the Blaser? ;)
The early R93 mods were frankly sub-standard and it amazes me that the Germans let them out of the factory, they are normally better at engineering than that, though after the redesign they seem fine. I actually like the straight pull because after more years than I care to admit of pulling back the action on semi-autos (we didn't always have enough BFA's available) I automatically try do the same on a bolt, so the Blaser action suits me fine, :oops: can't teach an old dog etc.
Horses for courses, a bit like homeloading.
And if I develop a flinch now, I'll blame you and your bl**dy photos.

Cheers
G
 

Thar

Well-Known Member
#13
geoshot said:
Hi Thar and Blaser 3006,
Let's leave it at that shall we? And agree to disagree and all that guff on the Blaser? ;)
The early R93 mods were frankly sub-standard and it amazes me that the Germans let them out of the factory, they are normally better at engineering than that, I'll blame you and your bl**dy photos.

Cheers
G
No problem buddy, nice to have a discussion nothing personal. Just from a engineers point of view I think could Blaser have come up with a more complicated way to make a manual operation rifle. :???:

Don’t get hung up on German quality I worked for probably their most prestigious engineering company and you would be surprised if you knew the truth. ;)

The original post was in German and is being translated by a forum member in full, so if anything else of interest comes up I will let you know.


Best rgds

Thar
 

geoshot

Well-Known Member
#14
Cheers Thar,

Come to think of it, mercs used to be known for quality and now they're better known for keeping tow trucks busy........
I'm usually a simple kind of duffer, but I like the Blaser despite it's complication. My rimmie is a standard job, a Ruger, and I still have to remind myself to lift the bolt handle before I pull back. Complicated though the Blaser is it suits my simple old mind. No accounting for folk.
 

MarkH

Well-Known Member
#16
A top tip for new Blaser owners

Really push that bolt forward firmly as the firing pin can cock before the bolt is fully engaged. This leads to a click when you pull the trigger rather than a bang.
Normally this would not happen on a range etc etc but when having to quietly load the rifle say when a unexpected deer pops out of the hedge just after you unloaded.
It has happened to me on a follow up shot on a Kudu in Botswana. I was unfamiliar with the rifle, it is a suttle design problem as I see. Yes yes the same can happen with turn bolts but it is easier to identify if the bolt handle is not down.
To avoid problems know you rifle inside out they all have thier little quirks

Here is a link about the Blaser problems and correspondance with the guy sans eye. The rifle did fail but the design fault has been corrected by Blaser. Being able to read German may help here
http://www.lima-wiederladetechnik.de/Zylinderverschluss/Zylinderverschluss.htm

Mark
 

MarkH

Well-Known Member
#17
Semi auto Blaser R93

Three recent posts from Germany

Selbstschießende Blaser R93
Hallo Herr Möller,

Ich schieße Norma 15 Gramm PPC Vulcan

Mir ist mit meiner heiß geliebten R93 das mir bis dahin unvorstellbare passiert.

Spannen, Abzug betätigen, BUMM (Sau liegt), 1. Schuß

Repetieren, BUMM, 2. Schuß

Unglaublich dumm von meinem Drückjagdbock schauen

repetieren, Bumm, 3. Schuß

den Glauben an meine R93 in 9,3x62 verloren haben

Der zweite, von meinem Nachbarn krank vorbei geschickte Frischling, durfte noch ein wenig länger leiden. Ich habe heute eine Mail an Blaser mit der Frage gesandt wie ich mich weiter verhalten soll. Auf diese Antwort bin ich gespannt, da ich nach noch nicht mal einer halben Stunde Suche im WWW diesen Effekt noch mehrfach gelesen habe.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Dirk Becker, Dienstag, 11. Dezember 2007 18:02

Tag Herr Becker,

das hat mir jemand auch schon mal erzählt. Man hat ihn damals geschimpft und gesagt Halbautomaten seien auf der Jagd nicht erwünscht. Dabei hatte er nur dieselbe Erscheinung wie Sie erlebt. Was das Selbstschießen hervorruft und wie das abzustellen wäre, weiß ich nicht. Da muß ihnen wohl Blaser sagen.

Jedenfalls zeigt sich bei solchen Ereignissen wie wichtig die allererste und für mich auch einzige Sicherheitsregel beimSchißen ist, nämlich unter allen Umständen den Lauf einer Waffe nur dahin zu richten da auch hingeschossen werden kann, sei es nun auf ein würdiges Ziel oder nur in einen Kugelfang oder steil in den Himmel. So kann nie unbeabsichtigt jemand getroffen, gantz gleich wann und wie oft es kknallt1

Waidmannheil, Lutz Möller, l.moeller@online.de


Noch eine selbstschießende R93
Hallo Herr Möller,

da ist Herr Becker nicht allein, ich hatte auch solch eine R93. Zweimal löste sich ein Schuß beim Repetiervorgang, einmal im Jahre 2000 vor dem Blaser Sicherheitscheck und zum zweiten Mal 2006 nach der Überarbeitung des Abzugstiftes im Werk. Ich wurde dann nach Isny ins Werk und Schießkino eingeladen und die Waffe sollte vor Ort untersucht werden. Ich bin den einfacheren Weg gegangen und habe meine (mehrere) R93 verkauft und was (aus meiner Sicht) Vernünftiges gekauft.

Mit freundlichem Gruß, Michael Bovenkerk, Dienstag, 11. Dezember 2007 21:23


Wieder eine selbstschießende R93
Hallo Lutz,

da selbstschießende R93 gerade angesagt sind, muß ich berichten, ich haba das auch schon zweimal erlebt. Einmal noch vor der Abzugsüberprüfung während einer Maisjagd und gerade 3 Wochen her auf dem Schießstand. Während der Maisjagd löste sich der Schuß beim Repetieren. Puuh da hab ich ganz schön geschwitzt, nicht weil es so warm war, sondern weil ich abgesetzt hatte und im Halbanschlag repetiert hatte. Der Schuß ging dann so im 30 bis 40 Grad Winkel ins Blaue und weit und breit kein Kugelfang.

Das Zweite mal liegt erst 3 Wochen zurück und geschah auf dem Schießstand. Ich hatte die Waffe auf den Sandsack aufgelegt und Richtung Scheibe ausgerichtet. Ebenfalls beim Einrepetieren löste sich der Schuß, diesmal allerdings ohne Gefahr in den Kugelfang. Es wäre schön zu hören wie die Geschichte weiter geht und was man von Blaser zu hören bekommt.

Übrigens ist jetzt die hdp-Mündungsbremse drauf und es ist ein Traum mit der Waffe zu schießen. Kein Hochschlag und der Rückschlag ist so ungefähr wie bei einer 6,5x57. Vielen Dank für diese Bremsenerfindung.

LM: Bitte sehr, bitte gern!

Zum getöteten Wachtelhund bring ich's immer noch nicht fertig meine Worte zu fassen und diese nieder zu schreiben. Ich war mit meinem Wachtelhund am 2. November ebenfalls im angrenzenden Revier des Herrn Manfred I. zur Jagd. Ich habe alle weiteren Jagden seit bekanntwerden in Thüringen abgesagt und alle anderen Hundeführer sollten dies auch tun.

Gruß, Stephan Heckeroth, Mittwoch, 12. Dezember 2007 09:50

Stephan,

die Hundesache haben ich wegen falscher Beteiligung geschlossen. Lediglich den Ausgang der Rechtssache werde ich dort noch einstellen.
Once is unlucky but three +times on three hunters when rapidly reloading for a follow up shot on driven game. Hummmmm :eek:
Obvoiusly we dont shoot our rifles in quite the same way as we dont as a rule do driven deer/boar shooting but....... :rolleyes:
Mauser/turn bolt actions are here to stay :lol:

Mark
 

sikamalc

Administrator
Site Staff
#18
Everyone has their own preference of make and calibre, and if a rifle fits you well when you first pick it up, and is comfortable and easy to handle, then buy it.

I have had a few people with Blaser rifles as clients, but not of late. I personally do not like them, too fiddly for me, and dare I say it over engineered for the job (my personal opnion) but the photos in this thread are enough to discourage anyone. Does anyone know what compensation these people recieved? although going by the photos no amount of money can repay for the physical and emotional damage done to these poor individuals.

Think I will stick to Tikka's and Rugers.
 

Blaser3006

Well-Known Member
#19
Just to add a little balance to the debate about, gosh I would never own one of those they're dangerous.

People in glass houses!

[/URL]
[/img]

May I present the perfect Sako. Over engineered and over complicated in my opinion. :D :D
 

Top