So . . . .
- Thread starter Woodsmoke
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Sheprador1973
Well-Known Member
Not quite that simple it turns out...
That's what they will have you believe and the sheeples are lapping it up.
Its turning out to be the biggest carve up in history!!
All its done is reiforce my belief that politicians will do what they want and it's all a sham they call democracy.
nun_hunter
Well-Known Member
@Sheprador1973 has hit the nail on the head in that no one who voted to leave knew exactly what they'd get but knew exactly what they wanted. This isn't a dig at the leavers at all so don't take it that way, if you vote for the status quo and to remain you know what you'll get as it's what you get now. There would be an evolution and the EU would develop slowly but at least in the short term things would be as expected.
The problem with the leave option is that there wasn't a single option or any detail or plan as to how out we would have to be in order to be classed as out. It seems now that we'll be out enough to satisfy the definition of leaving the EU but actually be in a much worse position.
I voted remain but have come round now to wanting to leave but wanting to leave in a substantial way. My fear is we won't leave in all but name and any influence we had (no matter how small) will be completely gone but we'll still be abiding their rules and paying for the privilege. Seems the worst of both worlds.
The problem with the leave option is that there wasn't a single option or any detail or plan as to how out we would have to be in order to be classed as out. It seems now that we'll be out enough to satisfy the definition of leaving the EU but actually be in a much worse position.
I voted remain but have come round now to wanting to leave but wanting to leave in a substantial way. My fear is we won't leave in all but name and any influence we had (no matter how small) will be completely gone but we'll still be abiding their rules and paying for the privilege. Seems the worst of both worlds.
Freeforester
Well-Known Member
Ah, the red herring!
Today's ruling by the ECJ is quite inconsequential in this case; Mrs May, along with the rest on either side of the divide in Westminster know full well that it would be treasonable (and politically in-credible) to dismiss or otherwise set aside the majority view expressed in the referendum, and even the ECJ & Co realise we aren't going to roll over like the other 'mistaken' EU prodigals, Eire, Denmark, etc and 'think again. Nor are we going to stay in, we are leaving the EU at the appointed hour at the end of March 2019, and whatever else may or may not be pontificated upon, that I s a certainty for all concerned, like it or not. The prospect of a second referendum simply won't be forthcoming, at least not until the first referendum result has been honoured, and the dust has settled, it's that simple.
Setting aside the irrational fear-mongering and misinformation about the imminent prospect of the sky falling in owing to the weight and frequency of plagues of frogs and pestilence, when the time draws nearer and the prospect of losing the content of the Great British purse, the EU will 'reconsider' its stance. Cui buono?
In the meantime, have a great Christmas one and all!
Today's ruling by the ECJ is quite inconsequential in this case; Mrs May, along with the rest on either side of the divide in Westminster know full well that it would be treasonable (and politically in-credible) to dismiss or otherwise set aside the majority view expressed in the referendum, and even the ECJ & Co realise we aren't going to roll over like the other 'mistaken' EU prodigals, Eire, Denmark, etc and 'think again. Nor are we going to stay in, we are leaving the EU at the appointed hour at the end of March 2019, and whatever else may or may not be pontificated upon, that I s a certainty for all concerned, like it or not. The prospect of a second referendum simply won't be forthcoming, at least not until the first referendum result has been honoured, and the dust has settled, it's that simple.
Setting aside the irrational fear-mongering and misinformation about the imminent prospect of the sky falling in owing to the weight and frequency of plagues of frogs and pestilence, when the time draws nearer and the prospect of losing the content of the Great British purse, the EU will 'reconsider' its stance. Cui buono?
In the meantime, have a great Christmas one and all!
gerarddwatts
Well-Known Member
I get really irritated when continually told I was too stupid to know what I was voting for.
To suggest it is breathtakingly arrogant.
If it is that complicated to get out, we shouldn't be in. The whole thing is hanging on a shoogly nail anyway, founded round a currency/financial regime that is designed to fail eventually.
To suggest it is breathtakingly arrogant.
If it is that complicated to get out, we shouldn't be in. The whole thing is hanging on a shoogly nail anyway, founded round a currency/financial regime that is designed to fail eventually.
nun_hunter
Well-Known Member
Sheprador1973
Well-Known Member
Check the definition of a referendum...it’s a yes or no, for or against, leave or remain. Just that. If I voted leave that’s all I’m entitled to...the fact that we will leave the EU. No details. No idea of how & the implications. Or consequences. Just we leave. If you do t like the reality of leaving conditionally then you should have thought of that or asked beforehand. As to talk of treason and ‘that’s what I voted for’...you simply don’t know what you voted for (other than in your own head). And good luck protesting/revolution etc. Like I said there’s panic now at the thought there’ll be another referendum...not like the last, but a referendum with policy and explanation at the forefront (which is a new referendum...not a perversion of justice). Think that one will be a landslide tbh.
Wapinschaw
Well-Known Member
Are we to believe that the Remain case presented the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
I think we all know that bull poo and scaremongering was the order of the day from both camps, and that it was down to individuals to decide which box they were going to tick.
Sheprador1973
Well-Known Member
I think the remain ‘case’ was nothing more than business as usual...carry on. Or even, consider how good we’ve got it relative to most.
Both the leave and remain campaigns were hugely flawed and built on lies and lack of information. No one on either side knew what they were actually voting for and that is no reflection on your intelligence or anyone else who voted leave (nor does it make those who voted "remain" more intelligent, credible or arrogant!).
Actually, it really isn't that simple and it certainly isn't a certainty. There are very many scenarios that could play out that could lead to a delay in leaving, not leaving at all or a second referendum (like it or not
). No one actually know how this is going to play out yet...I totally agree with your sentiments Out is Out. A strong leader would have signed article 50 and said "How much, and what, are you going to give us, you have three months before we finish with you, no deal after that" oh and by the way "Our share pound for pound must amount to quite a lot looking at all that expensive real estate you have spent the money on, we want our share of that".
£39 billion chaps, go forth, you owe us more than that.
Ok you want to play silly Borders, generally it's going to cost you more than us if you do that. And to my friends across the water threatening "The Troubles" again "Watch out cos if you start we will play like many other world powers this time and completely annihilate any organisation that starts it.
But what did we get? A weak leader and probably quite a few nice backdoor deals. I never wanted to join the Common Market and we were tricked into it and I never thought we would be allowed to escape once in (which is coming true) .
I can quite foresee a lot of civil unrest before long unless we get some sort of political party that unites our people.
I always worked on the principle that if you aren't a Socialist until you are 21 and then a Conservative Unionist afterwards there is something wrong with you, but both are now crocks of sh1te. After this debacle I will never again vote for any party in this present Parliament.
Just had a bet with the Mrs about which merchant will be the first to go on the attack.
Woodsmoke
Well-Known Member
That snowflake needs horsewhipping. Pathetic, absolutely pathetic.
Completely agree with Horseman about strong leadership. With May, the country was always at risk of being bullied as she's about as tough as piece of damp tissue. having said that, for decades the UK has been like a ship without a rudder as successive PMs and governments have bled the country dry for their own ends without giving a flying proverbial for what's actually right, proper, and most appropriate for the UK as a whole. I'm sick to my soul of the entire damn lot of them. Vive la Revolution, I say
Completely agree with Horseman about strong leadership. With May, the country was always at risk of being bullied as she's about as tough as piece of damp tissue. having said that, for decades the UK has been like a ship without a rudder as successive PMs and governments have bled the country dry for their own ends without giving a flying proverbial for what's actually right, proper, and most appropriate for the UK as a whole. I'm sick to my soul of the entire damn lot of them. Vive la Revolution, I say
Stevie/P
Well-Known Member
Sounds like the caller is FRIT
Which snowflake is that then, James O’Brien or the leave voter who had the courage to admit that he thinks he’s made a mistake on national radio ? Are you threatening people with violence For holding perfectly lawful views?
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