So . . . .

[Olaf]

I bet this explains many leave voters reasons for leaving and it’s : immigration and Sovereignty.
Absolutely ridiculous arguments for leaving the EU as we have more control of such things as full members than we can have outside of it.
I’ve heard so many people saying “ we’re leaving Europe “
Unless the leave supporters have some particularly interesting method of sailing this here island known as the UK into other waters we will always be part of Europe. Having laws that have been established on trade with one another and our borders for decades is the only way To function.

 

[bluesako]

i,m sick to the teeth with all this ****, i could,nt give a toss, we were being screwed before we went in, we were getting screwed while we were in, we will get scewed after we leave, so **** it. bs

 

[CarlW]

Which snowflake is that then, James O’Brien or the leave voter who had the courage to admit that he thinks he’s made a mistake on national radio ? Are you threatening people with violence For holding perfectly lawful views?

To be fair, the caller was a bit of a bl00dy girl about it, eh? Surely a good thrashing would dry up his tears pretty quickly. I think woodsmoke only had the guy's best interests and personal development at heart...

 

[Woodsmoke]

Are you threatening people with violence For holding perfectly lawful views?

Oh, here we go . . . .

No. What I'm condemning is some spineless idiot bleating on national radio crying that he's made a mistake, the ramifications of which he probably didn't understand from the outset. Would you like to take my comment in the context in which it was meant? Or would you prefer you and I to continue to clutter up my thread with dick-measuring banalities until your liberal sensibilities are appeased?

 

[tom308w]

there will be leavers who want to stay now. And remailers who want to go out. the way this has been handled by the British parliament and the eu is shocking. The eu is trying its best to give us the worst deal it can.it cant afford the uk or any other country to go.nobody new what was going to happen because know one has left the eu beforeand there making it up as they go along

 

[Olaf]

Oh, here we go . . . .

No. What I'm condemning is some spineless idiot bleating on national radio crying that he's made a mistake, the ramifications of which he probably didn't understand from the outset. Would you like to take my comment in the context in which it was meant? Or would you prefer you and I to continue to clutter up my thread with dick-measuring banalities until your liberal sensibilities are appeased?

I’m not a liberal.
So, why do you still think it’s a good idea to leave the EU ?
That 52% of the population who voted to leave , all have completely opposing views on what leave would achieve too , indeed there are at least 5 different constituencies in the leave side , many of them who’s views were based on blatant and outright lies or just assumptions.
So, why are you so scared of having a People’s Vote when the politicians have finally got some concrete offers on the table ? Surely you believe in having control over your future as a UK citizen ? It is now painfully clear to everyone in the UK and around the globe that what the leave campaign promised is in practice absolutely and utterly not possible. So, why on earth don’t you want a People’s vote when it’s so clear that both leave and remain voters have been utterly shafted by this Government.
Kindest regards, Olaf

 

[Olaf]

there will be leavers who want to stay now. And remailers who want to go out. the way this has been handled by the British parliament and the eu is shocking. The eu is trying its best to give us the worst deal it can.it cant afford the uk or any other country to go.nobody new what was going to happen because know one has left the eu beforeand there making it up as they go along

No they are not making it up as they go along. The EU are actually acting on agreements that many very great legal minds from the UK and other countries turned into law over a 40 year period in order to protect the members of the EU, the UK being one of the very highly regarded members too.
Obviously, the EU are going to protect its members- that’s what it was formed for. We are currently one of those members and can still lawfully remain with our full entitlements and continue to retain our sovereignty and control over our borders and remain major players in the worlds largest economy. What is not to like about that ?
I can tell you something else, if the If there are people that think that our government will get a better set of trade agreements from the WTO then they are living in land of absolute fantasy.
Kindest regards, Olaf

 

[tackb]

first we have to leave ! this is essential to democracy or we end up like france with riots etc

then in a few years time we can vote to rejoin the eu (i'd suggest 40 yrs) but first we must leave and respect democracy , we know what it's like in the eu and we voted out what we don't know for sure despite what all the whinging nay sayers wail on about is what it will be like once we are out , so far every prediction has been wrong so lets leave and get some facts , if we go to hell in a hand cart so be it we can beg the eu to take us back IF they are still a thing...……………...

as for lies in the run up to the referendum , well , I think both sides gilded the lily a little personally but my beef is 9 million of taxpayers money (my chuffing money!) was used for a remain leaflet yet no equivalent was given to the leave campaign yet we still voted out...…….

 

[User00009]

+10 Olaf!

My plan was to keep my powder dry, however after reading and monitoring this thread, if anyone thinks we will return to the land of bread and honey of the past is sadly mistaken. The cost of raw materials, the cost of transportation will all increase. Profit margins will dictate that wages will go down. Anybody thinking wages will rise are sadly mistaken. The only beneficiaries of this debacle will be mogg, Johnson and Corbyn and his cronies.

Of course mainland Europe is not going to concede anymore concessions and why should they? Doing so would be like opening a Pandora’s box to the other nation states.

The only solution is to retract article 50, and fight for change from within.
RS

 

[User00025]

Which snowflake is that then, James O’Brien or the leave voter who had the courage to admit that he thinks he’s made a mistake on national radio ? Are you threatening people with violence For holding perfectly lawful views?

Hey up Woodsmoke we have got another one. He's not even in my sweepstake to see who would rail against me first.
The Mrs picked 2 and I've got 2 with a tenner riding on it. One of em's got to bite soon.

 

[countrryboy]

Must admit the only thing i'm surprised about this whole shambles is the ammount of folk surprised by it.

The Eu were never going to give us a great deal, they have to been seen to hammer us so no other country tries to leave,, the whole thing is at a tipping point due to a few things (debt,financial crisis, and immigration/free movement) so for 1 of the main investors/contributors to be leaving and seen to flourish, would not be good for it and could easy tip it over the edge or encouragee more to leave.
It was never in there interest to give us a good deal.

Same with the border in ireland, it simply has to be a hard border they're is no way round it.
How would we react if 2 countries on the easern edge of Eu wanted an open border?? No chance we'd allow it.

Don't want to offend the irish as a nation here, but where do u think most stolen plant/quads and even dogs end up?? On a ferry accross the irish sea.
If there was no hard border and u could dodge tax/customs in out of Eu the ammount of scams importing/exporting stuff throu ireland would be unbelievable
It would quickly become a bootlegging/smuggling capitol

Nothing thats happened so far is really a surprise, the spineless leaders/politicians at westminster is was only ever going to end up a farce.
If ur playing poker or negotating u can't negotate with either all ur moves already talked about publicly, or have to then get approval (like this vote) its in Eu's interest to give us as bad a deal as possible so it gets voted down and we have to come back begging, where they can then take away the many rebates we get so it auctually will cost us £350million a week to be in the club possibly even forc us into the euro.

Wot ever ur views going back is not an option now (we'd never have the same terms and even if we did our voice would never ever be heard again the way the voting works (u only have to look at eurovison to see their mentality)), the genie is out the bottle, only way is a clean break and suck it up and get on with it

 

[Olaf]

Hey up Woodsmoke we have got another one. He's not even in my sweepstake to see who would rail against me first.
The Mrs picked 2 and I've got 2 with a tenner riding on it. One of em's got to bite soon.

Hilarious

 

[Heym SR20]

So to quote a colleague this morning:

What the f**k were we thinking when asked a Yes/No question on Europe? Brexit was never binary. Compromise is not an option. The politics of Brexit have become impossible:

• 1% of voters are EU spies put here by Juncker to “frame the argument”
• 4% of people want complete political unity with Europe and everyone to learn French, German, Spanish, Italian or whatever…
• 10% of the population think closer political union with Europe is jolly good after Tarquin and Amber had such a marvellous time on their school exchange programmes..
• 27% of the electorate are keen to retain a squishy kind of political unity with Europe that allows us to be simultaneously British and European: 8% of this group say European first, 9% say British first, and the remaining 10%, (mostly Scots and Welsh), want to define themselves as anything but English, and only voted remain because it would upset London. (But they probably hate Brussels just as much…)
• 8% of Brits say we should probably remain in Europe but don’t think its worth arguing about
• 7% of ballot castors think we should probably exit Europe because of the Euro, but lets not get in a tizz about it
• 15% of folk think we should exit Europe politically but remain inside a customs union.
• 8% of the polity think we should exit Europe and agree selective trade agreements with selective European countries (mainly Merc drivers)
• 12% of gammons think Europe is essentially evil because Poles have taken all their jobs and run off with their wives, but because Brits are fundamentally better than Europeans we should exit everything.
• 8% of nutters think England should not only leave, but give Europe the Welsh, Scots and Irish to..
• 2% of the gentlefolk want to align with the Minister for the 18th Century and step back in time..

About sums it up in my view. The referendum campaign was appallingly badly run, with clear discrepancies on both sides - so much so that the courts have found serious wrong doings.

A huge amount of business has already gone outside of the UK.

And as for our ability to create trade deals elsewhere - that beggars belief.

And quite what parts of the world will be creating trade deals with that don't already have good trading relationships with our selves and the rest of Europe.

 

[rem284]

Politicians are overpaid professional liers

 

[Olaf]

+10 Olaf!

My plan was to keep my powder dry, however after reading and monitoring this thread, if anyone thinks we will return to the land of bread and honey of the past is sadly mistaken. The cost of raw materials, the cost of transportation will all increase. Profit margins will dictate that wages will go down. Anybody thinking wages will rise are sadly mistaken. The only beneficiaries of this debacle will be mogg, Johnson and Corbyn and his cronies.

Of course mainland Europe is not going to concede anymore concessions and why should they? Doing so would be like opening a Pandora’s box to the other nation states.

The only solution is to retract article 50, and fight for change from within.
RS

Absolutely brilliant summary based on facts and not assumptions. That’s the problem with the leave proposition, all they can do is make assumptions, and, what’s even worse , they don’t even have a plan ! Not even a solution, not one. Only ideas and assumptions.
Trade Agreements are what this is all about, and , like a cars engine and other mechanical parts, they don’t change gear or stop the machine from driving you off a cliff just because you feel, wish or believe it should change gear or turn. The EU has and still does function, the UK will go flying off a cliff on April fools day next year if it doesn’t get in control.
Personally I and many millions of people would think it best, indeed the only way , to have a vote on the final agreement and allow the country to decide on what is actually the real and factual offer. Especially given that we can now remain and keep all of our agreements and our borders and our laws and our supremacy etc etc...

 

[countrryboy]

But the masive flaw in ur arguement olaf is why just the 1 vote?
Wot if u don't get ur way? Another vote? Best of 5? or just a national rock paper sisscors comp?
If u get ur way is that the result we take as obviously the previous referendum was just a practice??
Wot are the 40+% pf the population on the losing side meant to do just shut up and take the result or are they allowed to moan constantly for x ammount of years untill they get a revote?

I've always thought with these type of lufe changing refernendums the % should be 60/40 as while the losers will still moan atleast there is less of them and it passed by a decent marign. 3% is a tiny marign for such a big decision

Plus the logisitcs and cost of setting up a new vote even if it was a good idea, i doubt it would even be possible by march, plus u'd have to have some 100% concrete on the table as to wot agreements are in place. Not likely to happen.
Any vote now is really no more informed than the previous vote

 

[User00025]

Hilarious

Not yet, fish aint taking the fly!

 

[Sheprador1973]

I reckon heym SR20's mate has it spot on. A yes or no vote on leaving the EU was a very very bad idea and as such has led to this. Not sure about the % breakdown of opinion tbh but hey ho...

I don't understand the argument that having another more informed for ALL voters public vote on how to proceed is somehow undemocratic? I know some like going on about how you 'won' (sure 'Statler & Waldorf' will be along soon to bang that drum again) but where do you expect this to end, really? We have a general election every 4 years max....its not undemocratic to have another. And local elections happen all the time. What...should we do it the once and stick with that for 40 years? I personally believe many leave voter's ideas on life in the UK post Brexit were sadly unrealistic to start with, not helped by Farage et al of course. Now you're all angry at the 'conditions' but were you honestly not expecting any? Really? Leave means leave? How?

I worry far more about my kid's future now post referendum than before. Not just because of the chaos that exists but also the attitudes of some of my countrymen...some of whom voice on here very loudly and occasionally inappropriately.

But wha' do i know...

 

[User00025]

I reckon heym SR20's mate has it spot on. A yes or no vote on leaving the EU was a very very bad idea and as such has led to this. Not sure about the % breakdown of opinion tbh but hey ho...

I don't understand the argument that having another more informed for ALL voters public vote on how to proceed is somehow undemocratic? I know some like going on about how you 'won' (sure 'Statler & Waldorf' will be along soon to bang that drum again) but where do you expect this to end, really? We have a general election every 4 years max....its not undemocratic to have another. And local elections happen all the time. What...should we do it the once and stick with that for 40 years? I personally believe many leave voter's ideas on life in the UK post Brexit were sadly unrealistic to start with, not helped by Farage et al of course. Now you're all angry at the 'conditions' but were you honestly not expecting any? Really? Leave means leave? How?

I worry far more about my kid's future now post referendum than before. Not just because of the chaos that exists but also the attitudes of some of my countrymen...some of whom voice on here very loudly and occasionally inappropriately.

But wha' do i know...

Do you require an answer to that last bit.
Just cost me ten quid.

 

[Sheprador1973]