Solid slugs for shotguns

Woodsmoke

Well-Known Member
#1
Are these controlled in the same way as expanding missiles for rifle rounds? I.e. only available to those holding an FAC with the appropriate authority? reason I ask is that I've seen them advertised on fleabay (just as unloaded projectiles)
 
#3
Be careful. The answer is both may be the case. So YES and NO.

Essentially ANY loaded shot gun cartridge with ANY projectile larger than .36" is s1 ammunition subject here in UK to an FAC. So that is not only solid slug loaded ammunition but ammunition loaded with a round ball regardless of how many if any one round ball is larger than .36". But in reality the old fashioned single round ball loads such as were issued to the Home Guard in WWII.

Or the old school Brenneke slugs or Forster slugs (the Lyman mould that casts a bullet like a sewing thimble). So all of those as loose bullets require no authorisation to possess.

However it gets complicated. In that ANY projectile that is designed to expand (just like our rifle ammunition and the bullets for it) is controlled from possession without an additional authority for expanding ammunition or expanding projectiles. So you might have a s1 FAC alowing "slid slug" but not with a condition for "expanding ammunition or projectiles".
 
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#4
View attachment 50887

The "slug" here like a large air pellet is free sale if not loaded into the cartridge. It is, as CLAYDUSTER says, just a lead bullet. In fact an air pellet on steroids that's been weight training.

The cartridge above with the "slug" as shown is s1. The "slug" as above shown next to it isn't expanding. It has a plain flat head. So the only authority for the assembled cartridges are an appropriate s1 FAC condition merely for "solid slug".

But in the example below all is not as above!

View attachment 50888

This above both the loose projectile and the loaded ammunition are "expanding projectiles" and in the loaded cartridge form "expanding ammunition". So possession of the loose bullets or loaded cartridges here in UK without an FAC allowing in addition to other authority that for 12 bore expanding projectiles and/or expanding ammunition is illegal. So a mere s1 FAC allowing the wording "solid slug" would not authorise its possession.

So, a question for the original poster of the thread. In loose bullet for or as loaded ammunition what category would the below cartridge or its loose "slug" be?

View attachment 50889
Happy New Year!
 
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Woodsmoke

Well-Known Member
#5
I would say S1, but I don't know for sure, hence the questions :)

These are what I've seen. As far as I can figure, surely Clayduster has it right & these are just lead balls until assembled into a loaded round? I have no need or desire for them myself, but I'm confused given that you need FAC authority to buy expanding bullets, but not (if I've understood properly) for FMJ? Surely a solid lead ball can't be classed as 'expanding', can it? so therefore it would fall under the blanket of FMJ? But you can't hold solid shot under the conditions of a SGC, nor can you use non-expanding projectiles on live quarry...........so what's the point of them? Please respond to completelybaffled@stalkingdirectory.com :lol:
 

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srvet

Well-Known Member
#6
I am authorised to hold 12g slug ammunition under my fac conditions. My understanding is that the unloaded projectile itself is not a controlled item until it is loaded into a cartridge at which point it becomes ammunition controlled under S1
 

howa243

Well-Known Member
#7
View attachment 50887

The "slug" here like a large air pellet is free sale if not loaded into the cartridge. It is, as CLAYDUSTER says, just a lead bullet. In fact an air pellet on steroids that's been weight training.

The cartridge above with the "slug" as shown is s1. The "slug" as above shown next to it isn't expanding. It has a plain flat head. So the only authority for the assembled cartridges are an appropriate s1 FAC condition merely for "solid slug".

But in the example below all is not as above!

View attachment 50888

This above both the loose projectile and the loaded ammunition are "expanding projectiles" and in the loaded cartridge form "expanding ammunition". So possession of the loose bullets or loaded cartridges here in UK without an FAC allowing in addition to other authority that for 12 bore expanding projectiles and/or expanding ammunition is illegal. So a mere s1 FAC allowing the wording "solid slug" would not authorise its possession.

So, a question for the original poster of the thread. In loose bullet for or as loaded ammunition what category would the below cartridge or its loose "slug" be?

View attachment 50889
Happy New Year!
This is very interesting. The second picture you show is one of an 'expanding projectile' but it is only expanding to fill the barrel snuggly until it exits and the bullet then completes its journey on its own. Are you saying that the bullet is not the projectile?
 

Southern

Well-Known Member
#8
So, enfieldspares, do you load your own slugs? I have not even seen any for sale in the US in 30 years.

Here, Remington, Federal, Fiocchi and Winchester sell the round nose, hollow base slugs in 12, 16, 20, and .410. Federal and Remington have some copper sabot slugs, and there are the Brenneke slugs imported.

I am now playing a little with them in my 20 ga/7x57R combination gun.

They are still in wide use in some states, where the terrain is very flat, and centerfire rifles are not allow for deer hunting in some counties ( Illinois, Indiana, Iowa ). There are specialized rifled barrels with cantilever Weaver rails attached, hanging over the receiver of the pump or autoloader, for red dot sights and slug scopes. You may have seen a previous thread here where someone posted a video of a girl with a Remington pump and no special sights, shooting targets at 100 yards.
 
#9
In answer to WOODSMOKE there is a definite place, for some uses, for a 12 bore round ball. But as below time and tide have pretty much seen it replaced as a projectile in most shot guns. Although even in the 1980s Eley loaded, for export,a three ball .410" for ape shooting apparently. Three LG letter shot size (36") lead balls I think. I know that they were trying to get rid of the stuff when they had the big re-organisation in the 1980s.

But over the years new inventions like the Brenneke and Forster slug have pretty much seen the single projectile 12 bore round ball load pass into the faded pages of old Eley-Kynoch catalogues and forums such as this. Or been excluded by changes in the law. Thus since the 1960s here in UK the law has said that where 12 bore shot guns are used on deer that any "slug" must be a rifled slug and not a ball.

You are correct in saying "Surely a solid lead ball can't be classed as 'expanding', can it?" Lead balls although they do flatten out and maybe even expand a little are not classed here in UK as expanding.

in answer to HOWA243 the projectile, the Federal with the blue tip, is indeed expanding. It is no more than a plastic tipped type bullet in a plaswad. Here's a link to the Federal Ammunition webpage for it. The customer reviews tab is worth clicking also:

http://www.federalpremium.com/products/details/shotshell.aspx?id=995

So definitely in the UK would require an expanding projectile or ammunition authority to be possessed either as a loose bullet or loaded cartridge.

In answer to SOUHERN there's very few here in UK that load shot gun cartridges in the usual calibres. First because European cartridges are cheaper than they have ever been, second because the cases here are not true brass bases as in the USA but cheap brass washed steel bases, and third because for wildfowl we now need to use non-lead shot. Either bismuth (and I'm not aware that this can be bought in bags...but may be wrong) or steel.

In fact other than blackpowder loads I've never reloaded shot gun ammunition and certainly have never loaded slug nor possess any. As an interesting fact RIFLED BARREL shot guns of pump action or self-loading would be illegal here in the UK. Thanks to the wretched Mrs Thatcher's 1988 Firearms Act.
 
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howa243

Well-Known Member
#10
In answer to WOODSMOKE there is a definite place, for some uses, for a 12 bore round ball. But as below time and tide have pretty much seen it replaced as a projectile in most shot guns. Although even in the 1980s Eley loaded, for export,a three ball .410" for ape shooting apparently. Three LG letter shot size (36") lead balls I think. I know that they were trying to get rid of the stuff when they had the big re-organisation in the 1980s.

But over the years new inventions like the Brenneke and Forster slug have pretty much seen the single projectile 12 bore round ball load pass into the faded pages of old Eley-Kynoch catalogues and forums such as this. Or been excluded by changes in the law. Thus since the 1960s here in UK the law has said that where 12 bore shot guns are used on deer that any "slug" must be a rifled slug and not a ball.

You are correct in saying "Surely a solid lead ball can't be classed as 'expanding', can it?" Lead balls although they do flatten out and maybe even expand a little are not classed here in UK as expanding.

in answer to HOWA243 the projectile, the Federal with the blue tip, is indeed expanding. It is no more than a plastic tipped type bullet in a plaswad. Here's a link to the Federal Ammunition webpage for it. The customer reviews tab is worth clicking also:

http://www.federalpremium.com/products/details/shotshell.aspx?id=995

So definitely in the UK would require an expanding projectile or ammunition authority to be possessed either as a loose bullet or loaded cartridge.

In answer to SOUHERN there's very few here in UK that load shot gun cartridges in the usual calibres. First because European cartridges are cheaper than they have ever been, second because the cases here are not true brass bases as in the USA but cheap brass washed steel bases, and third because for wildfowl we now need to use non-lead shot. Either bismuth (and I'm not aware that this can be bought in bags...but may be wrong) or steel.

In fact other than blackpowder loads I've never reloaded shot gun ammunition and certainly have never loaded slug nor possess any. As an interesting fact RIFLED BARREL shot guns of pump action or self-loading would be illegal here in the UK. Thanks to the wretched Mrs Thatcher's 1988 Firearms Act.

Ahh stupid of me. Had not spotted it was plastic tipped.
 

Clayduster

Well-Known Member
#12
I would say S1, but I don't know for sure, hence the questions :)

These are what I've seen. As far as I can figure, surely Clayduster has it right & these are just lead balls until assembled into a loaded round? I have no need or desire for them myself, but I'm confused given that you need FAC authority to buy expanding bullets, but not (if I've understood properly) for FMJ? Surely a solid lead ball can't be classed as 'expanding', can it? so therefore it would fall under the blanket of FMJ? But you can't hold solid shot under the conditions of a SGC, nor can you use non-expanding projectiles on live quarry...........so what's the point of them? Please respond to completelybaffled@stalkingdirectory.com :lol:
I think the important wording point in law is "designed to expand", a lead ball does but it isn't classed as expanding.

There is no requirement to use expanding projectiles on all live quarry there are experts on here who can expand on that (Pun intended).

If I had some of those I would use them on zombies once I had run out of my more accurate loads.
 

Muir

Well-Known Member
#15
What kind of results did you get ?.
It killed them, of course, but I disliked the lack of precision. I eventually bought an Ithaca Deer Slayer 12 ga with rifle sights. With Brenneke slugs I could shoot 4-6" at 100 yards. Made me feel as though I was throwing rocks.~Muir

Addendum: I currently have a 12 g Double with rifle sights for shooting those of God's Creatures Who Would Dine On Me and I love it. Wouldn't consider it for deer unless it was a last resort.
 
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