Sound moderators deregulation - FAQ

Yes but it certainly took a long time ..progress for sure and in the right direction for once ..for us poor Law abiding licence holders apart from caviat below as mentioned by another member in post 2👍

( P.S long, long over due move , lets hope nobody rallies against it ) ☹️🙈
 
I'm sorry, but you are wrong about sound moderators not having to be sold face-to-face by an RFD or via RFD transfer. Existing law absolutely requires sound moderators to be sold through the RFD process. And why on earth wouldn't they, given they go on slots on FAC like other S1 component parts and accessories? Please get this error amended ASAP, before you discuss anything further with the UK Government. Getting a slot for a mod is a doddle. Always has been. I've got more slots for them than I need. The issues has always been not being able to buy them online and having to pay ridiculous RFD transfer fees, unless your local RFD stocks them.

As an aside, I also know more than a few RFDs who do not agree with your claim that S2 sound moderators are already exempt from licensing. S2 shotguns are still firearms and still subject to the definition of a firearm, but they are a subgroup with a specific definition to do with barrel length, magazine capacity etc. The argument I have heard made by those more knowledgeable than me is that there's nothing that explicitly says shotgun moderators fall outwith licensing at present or that says the sound mod subsection of the definition of a firearm doesn't apply to firearms that are shotguns, thus they are still subject to the RFD process above, if nothing else. I'm not a lawyer, so I don't know precisely, but there's enough doubt here that I think BASC needs to show its legal advice on this matter so we don't ended up with flawed legislation.
I would like an explanation for this too! Incredibly concerning that BASC thinks “firearms” (as mods currently are) are being sold on the internet without RFD involvement.
 
Happy to see that BASC has listened to those of us who pointed out their mistakes (as outlined above) and has updated their FAQ article on sound moderators accordingly. Still rather concerning that these elementary mistakes occurred in the first place, however, given that these are the people directly liaising with government on firearms law.
 
No, he's not wrong.

You can buy any moderator, unregulated, in England and Wales, on the basis that it could be for use on a sub-12ft/lbs air rifle, without any paperwork or rfd involvement at all.
In principle, I agree - but if I might reword it:

I think that you may lawfully buy and possess a moderator of any kind without any particular authority, because under the Firearms Act it is clear that the only moderators subject to S1 control are those which are actually and in fact 'an accessory to' a S1 firearm.
Not those which are merely capable of being used as an accessory to an S1 firearms; but those that actually are an accessory to an S1 firearm.

Does that make sense?

This, I think, explains why I am not committing an offence by owning five moderators which would work on my .22LR rifle when I only have one on my FAC: it is because the FAC-slot is there to allow my possession of the moderator actually attached to my .22LR rifle - of which there can only ever be one at any one time.

This also explains how someone not holding an FAC at all may lawfully possess one or more moderators - as long as they are not actually an accessory to an S1 firearm.
 
Last edited:
In principle, I agree - but if I might reword it:

I think that you may lawfully buy and possess a moderator of any kind without any particular authority, because under the Firearms Act it is clear that the only moderators subject to S1 control are those which are actually and in fact 'an accessory to' a S1 firearm.
Not those which are merely capable of being used as an accessory to an S1 firearms; but those that actually are an accessory to an S1 firearm.

Does that make sense?

This, I think, explains why I am not committing an offence by owning five moderators which would work on my .22LR rifle when I only have one on my FAC: it is because the FAC-slot is there to allow my possession of the moderator actually attached to my .22LR rifle - of which there can only ever be one at any one time.

This also explains how someone not holding an FAC at all may lawfully possess one or more moderators - as long as they are not actually an accessory to an S1 firearm.
Just to be clear, BASC has updated their article and by extention admitted that they were wrong. Ergo, Section 1 moderators cannot be bought over the counter without an FAC slot, they cannot be sold new other than via an RFD and they can't be sent mail order. The fact that 'air weapon' calibre moderators can, in England & Wales only, be bought without needing a certificate (but all other restrictions still apply and I don't buy any of the arguments that they don't) and they can technically work with certain S1 firearms is simply an anomaly due to the ridiculous way firearms law in the UK has been drafted (normally use to knee jerk reactionary panic). If you stick a moderator bought ad an air weapon moderator onto a S1 firearm and you haven't added it onto a slot on your FAC, that is almost certainly an offence. That is also why the law as it stand is ridiculous and why the proposed changes, so lnog as they are worded well AND are founded on a correct understanding of existing law and what must he changed to make it better, is long overdue.
 
Section 1 moderators cannot be bought over the counter without an FAC slot, they cannot be sold new other than via an RFD and they can't be sent mail order.
They certainly cannot in most cases - that's true: but I the the reason is the RFDs are disinclined to sell them to those without an appropriate vacant 'slot'.

According to the Firearms Act, the only moderators subject to any kind of control on purchase/possession are those which are 'accessories to' S1 firearms. There's no definition of the nature of the moderator as an item of itself making it either S1 or uncontrolled (which are the two conditions which a moderator may have, as far as I can tell).
The property of a moderator under that Act which makes it subject to S1 control is its actually being 'an accessory to' a S1 firearms: actually being an accessory to it - not just having to potential to be. It is only moderators which fulfil that criterion which are subject to S1 controls.

Other moderators, nor things which could be adapted for that purpose (oil-filters, for example), do not.

Or at least, so it appears to me.
 
Happy to see that BASC has listened to those of us who pointed out their mistakes (as outlined above) and has updated their FAQ article on sound moderators accordingly. Still rather concerning that these elementary mistakes occurred in the first place, however, given that these are the people directly liaising with government on firearms law.
I thought some FAQs might help, based on some of the questions on here, PW and BASC FB page, and some are still not happy with the amended versions, so we might change them further, and as for the legislation, all this discussion just underlines the need for reform.
 
Sure. One is legally S1 and the other is not. The law may very well be an ass (and it absolutely is when it comes to all sound moderators) but that doesn't change it being the law. I also have airgun mods that would fit on my FAC rifles, but I don't put them on my FAC rifles because, technically, that would be a breach of the law if they weren't held under an FAC slot (they'd also need cleaning, which is a more acute issue).
But the whole point is the law is changing and they will no longer be section 1, surely?
 
All we have is an undertaking that they will do something sensible and decades overdue whenever they've got nothing more pressing to argue about in parliament. If they can do a statutory instrument to double our certificate fees at the stroke of a pen then they could do one for this, so why haven't they?
 
all this discussion just underlines the need for reform.
I'd say that the discussion underlines the need initially for clarity on what the current position in law actually is.

But the whole point is the law is changing and they will no longer be section 1, surely?
What is clear from the Minister's statement is that it will be necessary to hold an FAC to possess moderators - by which she presumably means moderators for S1 firearms: which sounds curiously like the current position could be, if it were clarified that a moderator is only considered a S1 firearm if it is actually an accessory to (meaning 'currently attached to') an S1 firearm.

If it were possible to clarify that position, then it might follow thus:
1. That lawful owners of S1 firearms would need a 'slot' for a moderator for each of the S1 firearms on which they wished to fit a moderator: not so hard to imagine, as many of us have this already, and there's no extra difficulty or cost occasioned by getting such slots
2. That this slot would have to be regarded differently from slots for actual S1 firearms. This is at least partly the case already, quite often. None of my moderators is described other than 'no name/no number' - which pretty much acknowledges what appears to me to be the intention of the Law.
3. The 'slot' would be occupied by whichever moderator is fitted to the relevant firearm only while that moderator is fitted to it. Clearly this makes it impracticable to keep getting the certificate varied (which IMO is why we currently don't).
4. This leaves moderators which are unattached to S1 or S5 firearms uncontrolled. They are items which are without apparent definition in law other than their definition as S1-contolled items under a particular circumstance which derives solely from their relationship to a S1 firearm; whereby any thing designed (ASE Utra, for example) or adapted (e.g. Unipart) to moderate the report of a S1 firearm becomes S1 while it is actually an accessory to such a firearm.


If that were recognisable as correct, then there would be no need for 'reform'. The current law would do what we all want.

My worries about reform are summed up by the variously-attributed quotation: 'Why all this talk of reform? Aren't things bad enough already?'

Anyone wondering why this quotation seems apposite might wish to have a look at the history, both recent and not so recent, of changes to UK firearms law.

All we have is an undertaking that they will do something sensible and decades overdue whenever they've got nothing more pressing to argue about in parliament. If they can do a statutory instrument to double our certificate fees at the stroke of a pen then they could do one for this, so why haven't they?
I'm not sure it's that simple: the provision to adjust the fees by statutory instrument was AFAIK built into the Act from the beginning.

Part of the problem with this proposed 'reform' seems to be that neither the people asking for it, nor those who have said they will deliver it seem to know quite what it is.

What is clear it that it gives the lawmakers the opportunity to open the box and meddle with the contents - and this seldom ends well for shooters, even when there is some clear benefit promised.
 
Last edited:
Hopefully it will be like S1 primers, show your FAC with a suitable calibre rifle to purchase (and may be posses) an appropriate sound moderator/s.
 
Hopefully it will be like S1 primers, show your FAC with a suitable calibre rifle to purchase (and may be posses) an appropriate sound moderator/s.
Does this not raise the question of how those who do not hold an FAC will be allowed to buy and be lawfully in possession of moderators - keeping in mind that moderators for sub 12ftlb airguns will work fine on many FAC-airguns, just as S2 shotgun mods will do fine on S1 shotguns?
 
Hopefully it will be like S1 primers, show your FAC with a suitable calibre rifle to purchase (and may be posses) an appropriate sound moderator/s.
Agree, this makes the most sense, although I imagine moderators suitable for air rifles (even if they can also be used on rimfires etc) will continue to be available without showing an FAC

Centrefire moderator: Show FAC but no slot required
Airgun/rimfire or shotgun moderator: No controls whatsoever

Hopefully the law is written in such a way that allows online / mail order sales of S1 moderators, perhaps with the buyer submitting a copy of their FAC online. Otherwise the additional costs associated with RFD to RFD transfers will continue.
 
I'd say that the discussion underlines the need initially for clarity on what the current position in law actually is.
I agree, and your comments on the current convoluted legislation, guidance and assumed processes around moderators make sense to me. Laws should be accessible, intelligible, clear, and predictable as per a speech by the Attorney General in 2023. However, hopefully we will see moderators completely deregulated as an accessory - no different to a scope or sling.
What is clear from the Minister's statement is that it will be necessary to hold an FAC to possess moderators
That part of the Minister's statement, which is based on a recommendation in the consultation outcome, makes no sense if moderators are to be deregulated to the same level as other accessories such as scopes and slings and that is something BASC and BSSC are trying to resolve since the statement was published - the latest Home Office ministerial meeting being on 24 June - where it was agreed that we would meet officials to discuss various technicalities arising from the consultation outcome.
 
I agree, and your comments on the current convoluted legislation, guidance and assumed processes around moderators make sense to me. Laws should be accessible, intelligible, clear, and predictable as per a speech by the Attorney General in 2023. However, hopefully we will see moderators completely deregulated as an accessory - no different to a scope or sling.

That part of the Minister's statement, which is based on a recommendation in the consultation outcome, makes no sense if moderators are to be deregulated to the same level as other accessories such as scopes and slings and that is something BASC and BSSC are trying to resolve since the statement was published - the latest Home Office ministerial meeting being on 24 June - where it was agreed that we would meet officials to discuss various technicalities arising from the consultation outcome.
This takes us back to the wording of the Firearms Act. I believe that there is a difference between something that has the potential to be used as an accessory to another thing, and something that actually in fact is an accessory to another thing.

The common usage of the word 'accessory' might in this context be misleading. The items so described (slings, 'scopes, moderators, cases etc) have the potential to be used as accessories to rifles and are being sold as such - but they do not actually become an accessory to a particular rifle until they are associated with it in a particular way.
In the case of something designed or adapted to diminish the report of a S1 firearm, it seems likely to me that the relationship with the S1 firearm which makes the item an accessory to it for that purpose is that it is attached to the rifle. If it is not attached to the S1 rifle it has the potential to be an accessory to it, but in fact is currently not.

The sematic difference is entirely irrelevant, until the accessorial relationship between item and rifle causes the item when an accessory to come under S1 controls. Then it really matters, and as far as I can tell it is only this reading of the Act that can satisfactorily explain why all those non-FAC-holding moderator owners, and well as FAC-holder moderator owner who own moderators which do not 'occupy slots' on their FACs, are not breaking any laws.

All speculation on my part, of course. However, the term 'accessory to' has an unusual ring to it, compared to our usual usage of 'accessory for' to mean a thing which might potentially be used to accessorise a particular other thing. One could compare with the idea of being an 'accessory to' a crime: we all have potential for that - but in order actually to be an accessory to a crime, you would have to have a particular relationship with the criminal act, rather than just have the potential to have done so.
 
Last edited:
This takes us back to the wording of the Firearms Act. I believe that there is a difference between something that has the potential to be used as an accessory to another thing, and something that actually in fact is an accessory to another thing.

The common usage of the word 'accessory' might in this context be misleading. The items so described (slings, 'scopes, moderators, cases etc) have the potential to be used as accessories to rifles and are being sold as such - but they do not actually become an accessory to a particular rifle until they are associated with it in a particular way.
In the case of something designed or adapted to diminish the report of a S1 firearm, it seems likely to me that the relationship with the S1 firearm which makes the item an accessory to it for that purpose is that it is attached to the rifle. If it is not attached to the S1 rifle it has the potential to be an accessory to it, but in fact is currently not.

The sematic difference is entirely irrelevant, until the accessorial relationship between item and rifle causes the item when an accessory to come under S1 controls. Then it really matters, and as far as I can tell it is only this reading of the Act that can satisfactorily explain why all those non-FAC-holding moderator owners, and well as FAC-holder moderator owner who own moderators which do not 'occupy slots' on their FACs, are not breaking any laws.

All speculation on my part, of course. However, the term 'accessory to' has an unusual ring to it, compared to our usual usage of 'accessory for' to mean a thing which might potentially be used to accessorise a particular other thing. One could compare with the idea of being an 'accessory to' a crime: we all have potential for that - but in order actually to be an accessory to a crime, you would have to have a particular relationship with the criminal act, rather than just have the potential to have done so.
Makes sense to me. Whilst speculating on this, my question is what term might be best for us all to use for the likes of moderators, scopes and slings that some people might attach to a gun.
 
Makes sense to me. Whilst speculating on this, my question is what term might be best for us all to use for the likes of moderators, scopes and slings that some people might attach to a gun.
I think 'accessories' is just fine, really. We just need to recognise that there are formal and informal usages of language - and I think that the use of 'accessory to' on the Act has a different meaning from the commoner 'accessory for', which we understand to means something which we could use as an accessory to our rifle, but which is currently not actually in that role.
 
Does this not raise the question of how those who do not hold an FAC will be allowed to buy and be lawfully in possession of moderators - keeping in mind that moderators for sub 12ftlb airguns will work fine on many FAC-airguns, just as S2 shotgun mods will do fine on S1 shotguns?

air gun mods are not proof tested which is a mandatory requirement for S1 and S2 mods, so if they have a proof mark they cannot be sold for air guns.

Even now nothing stops someone buying an airgun mod and putting on a S1 firearm, so that would also continue to be so.
 
air gun mods are not proof tested which is a mandatory requirement for S1 and S2 mods, so if they have a proof mark they cannot be sold for air guns.

Even now nothing stops someone buying an airgun mod and putting on a S1 firearm, so that would also continue to be so.
Mandatory proofing of mods is not required. Proofed mods can be sold for use on air guns and unproofed mods can be sold for use on firearms.

It seems the only people who say it is required are the Proof Houses who are in the business of proofing, when the whole proof system, as it currently is carried out, is increasingly seen as outdated, irrelevant and somewhat dangerous.
 
Mandatory proofing of mods is not required. Proofed mods can be sold for use on air guns and unproofed mods can be sold for use on firearms.

It seems the only people who say it is required are the Proof Houses who are in the business of proofing, when the whole proof system, as it currently is carried out, is increasingly seen as outdated, irrelevant and somewhat dangerous.

If I was a business manufacturing mods for S1 and S2 I would want liability insurance and to get that given the current proof act I would expect the insurance underwriters to want the mods proof tested. Plus I would want to know what I was selling is fit for purpose.

is it not more dangerous to not proof test a mod, rather than just say the proof act is outdated?

Where do you draw the line, no need to proof test anything?

What current production make of S1, S2 mods are you suggesting are not proof tested? As I will avoid them.
 
Back
Top