South Yorkshire Police Firearms Licensing Department

[BASC Firearms Dept]

Recently, a member of South Yorkshire Police Firearms Licensing Staff was dismissed for matters relating to the accuracy of firearm and shotgun records. Because of this the Firearms department have contacted their certificate holders to ask them to check their guns to try to ensure the police records are correct.

As a result of this, Chief Superintendent Odell and Inspector Gregory sought a meeting with the BASC firearms team, which was very open, wide-ranging, helpful and honest.
As a result, BASC now recommends the following

If you receive a letter from South Yorkshire police asking you to check your guns, complete the paperwork by supplying all the details of your guns. It would be best to check your firearms serial numbers from the guns themselves to ensure no errors have occurred at purchase etc. You can report any discrepancy without fear.

Fill in the questionnaire attached should you wish to do so, as this is a genuine wish on behalf of South Yorkshire police to engage with customers separately to the records issue. Your comments will lead to improved service.

Please note: South Yorkshire police will ask to visit certificate holders where they receive no reply. BASC advises you co-operate as far as possible in order to help South Yorkshire police to ensure their records are correct, which will ultimately help your sport.

South Yorkshire police have told us that they are committed to ensuring that this issue is dealt with swiftly and with minimal disruption to the certificate holders, their customers.

 

[aaronbott]

shame there was no discussion on the AOLQ issue. They are requiring a written letter from the land owner to state that you can shoot any other quarry. Thought this idea was to make things easier for all involved, not giving themselves more to do ?
​

 

[Dalua]

I do wish they wouldn't use the word 'customers' when referring to lawful firearms owners who have no 'customer choice' with respect to firearms licensing, and to whom the police are by statute obliged to provide this service: nothing could be further from the ususal service- or retail-sector use of the word 'customer', and this use seems to me to trivialise and debase the reationship between the FLD and the public they serve.

 

[BASC Firearms Dept]

I do wish they wouldn't use the word 'customers' when referring to lawful firearms owners who have no 'customer choice' with respect to firearms licensing, and to whom the police are by statute obliged to provide this service: nothing could be further from the ususal service- or retail-sector use of the word 'customer', and this use seems to me to trivialise and debase the reationship between the FLD and the public they serve.

If you don't want to be a customer nor treated like one then there is little hope of getting a polite and timely service. Things will merely go downhill.

 

[BASC Firearms Dept]

shame there was no discussion on the AOLQ issue. They are requiring a written letter from the land owner to state that you can shoot any other quarry. Thought this idea was to make things easier for all involved, not giving themselves more to do ?
​

This is not happeneing in South Yorkshire, we raised it with the senior staff. West Yorks are exhibiting such behaviour.

 

[aaronbott]

That's what I was told in a phone call with them this week

 

[BASC Firearms Dept]

That's what I was told in a phone call with them this week

I cant account for your conversation, but we have been given assurance that each case wil be dealt with on its merits and AOLQ will be granted upon initial good reason being demonstrated for a primary activity.

The condition will only allow other quarry to be shot if a person giving permission allows it. So if you nly have permission to shoot deer with a .243 then you cannot utilise the any other lawful quarry aspect until you are permitted to.
You may wish to ask them to put this in writing or ask to Speak to Mr Gregory for his help, he is the current manager whist Tim Wright is away on sick leave.

 

[snowy]

Being a lazy git and one of the first to receive one of these requests I just copied details from my FAC & SGC. At the time S/Y firearms did not state the true reason for these requests I suppose now I ought to check serial numbers against my certs to make sure I've given them correct info being as they couldn't be honest and up front with their original request.

 

[BASC Firearms Dept]

Being a lazy git and one of the first to receive one of these requests I just copied details from my FAC & SGC. At the time S/Y firearms did not state the true reason for these requests I suppose now I ought to check serial numbers against my certs to make sure I've given them correct info being as they couldn't be honest and up front with their original request.

You are spot on Snowy, thats what we raised at the outset which led to our meeting, there was a reason they were cagey about the real story and its all water under the bridge, but dont worry, they have systems in place to ensure nothing is missed. However they may contact you if they need to take a peek or confirm something.

 

[snowy]

You are spot on Snowy, thats what we raised at the outset which led to our meeting, there was a reason they were cagey about the real story and its all water under the bridge, but dont worry, they have systems in place to ensure nothing is missed. However they may contact you if they need to take a peek or confirm something.

Thanks for that I'll revert to type then and chill out and if they want to follow up they know where I'm at they've been before once or twice at least .

 

[Dalua]

If you don't want to be a customer nor treated like one then there is little hope of getting a polite and timely service. Things will merely go downhill.

Is this a bit facile?
I have never been referred to as a 'customer' by GMP FLD, nor have I ever considered myself as a customer of theirs: yet their service is prompt and polite.
When I interact with my FLD, I approach them respectfully and courteously as a member of the public acting in accordance with statute law, and I do my best to help them discharge their duty to both me and the rest of the public under that same law.

So no, I don't want to behave or be treated like, or even be thought of as, a customer of the FLD.

 

[smullery]

Is this a bit facile?
I have never been referred to as a 'customer' by GMP FLD, nor have I ever considered myself as a customer of theirs: yet their service is prompt and polite.
When I interact with my FLD, I approach them respectfully and courteously as a member of the public acting in accordance with statute law, and I do my best to help them discharge their duty to both me and the rest of the public under that same law.

So no, I don't want to behave or be treated like, or even be thought of as, a customer of the FLD.

Dalua,

All Police in the UK are no longer forces but services. You have no choice, you are a customer......
​Please continue to be a grumpy customer

Stan

 

[snowy]

Dalua,

All Police in the UK are no longer forces but services. You have no choice, you are a customer......
​Please continue to be a grumpy customer

Stan

It's alright being a customer as long as you're not enjoying their hospitality suite as the service does leave something to be desired if my memory serves me well .

 

[DaveK]

Nope. customer certainly isn't the appropriate term.

1. General: A party that receives or consumes products (goods or services) and has the ability to choose between different products and suppliers.

Read more: http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/customer.html#ixzz2bR0shPqp

Where's our ability to chose different products? Does a refusal equate to being "out of stock"? And where's the freedom to chose between suppliers without moving to a different county?

Just a thought

 

[Jagged77]

This is not happeneing in South Yorkshire, we raised it with the senior staff. West Yorks are exhibiting such behaviour.

Are they prepared to issue AOLQ with witten landowner permission stating the need?

 

[BASC Firearms Dept]

Are they prepared to issue AOLQ with witten landowner permission stating the need?

they should be granting it once you show primary good reason so for example if you have permission for foxes for a .223 or .222 or .22-250 then you should also get AOLQ

likewise if you want a .270 for deer, once you have permission for deer, you should get AOLQ also. There is no problem to anybody as the AOLQ condition only works by permmission whcih has to be legally binding, if it is not then you may be prosecuted for failing to comply with the condition.

However some believe that if they grant AOLQ without an all encompassing permission for every species they are somehow liable if the cert holder shoots an animal not permitted by the person giving permision e.g. farmer or landowners etc but realistically some are just being difficult and objecting becuase they can.

What they dont realise is that ocne they apply a condition and you ask for it to be changed it is at that refusal you can appela the decision in court.

 

[aaronbott]

So should this be applied when you have deer stalking on a rifle?
i have been refused this condition this week when a variation for deer stalking was put in on my .243
i have put in receipts for stalking
they were also going to refuse my deer stalking on the .243 saying it was not a large enough caliber for red deer.

 

[news of the world]

So should this be applied when you have deer stalking on a rifle?
i have been refused this condition this week when a variation for deer stalking was put in on my .243
i have put in receipts for stalking
they were also going to refuse my deer stalking on the .243 saying it was not a large enough caliber for red deer.

Was your refusal in writing or verbally,especially the last part?

 

[Greymaster]

I presume that the Police Services also refer to criminals as "customers" as well, or are these "guests"?

Be realistic, FAC/SGC holders are merely "enforcement objects", or at best, "subjects".

 

[aaronbott]

Was your refusal in writing or verbally,especially the last part?

both verbally by phone
ive had to get the person who took me for my dsc1 shooting exam to confirm my shooting competence. Once he rang them they instantly agreed to issues the variation for the .243
they were stating that they don't want people coming for additional dispatch pistols 'cos the wounded with a .243!!!